[ivanbuto]

Hi everyone,

seeing as there seem to be some folks with good knowlede of C++ programming in this forum, along with a sense of dedication to keeping Windows 98 alive, I thought this would be the right place to post.

As some of you might know or might have noticed, Mozilla has decided to drop support for all pre-Windows 2000 platforms on the current trunk code. This will impact all releases of Firefox and Thunderbird off the 1.9 branch and beyond (i.e. Firefox 3.0 and beyond). Note that Firefox 2.0 will still support Windows 9x.

With Firefox 3, they will change their grahpics module to CAIRO, which uses some APIs that do not exist on Win9x.


Here are the references:

https://bugzilla.moz...g.cgi?id=330276
https://bugzilla.moz...g.cgi?id=331723
http://forums.mozill...ic.php?t=401271


The "Kernel Update Project" is already one exciting thing happening in this forum. Perhaps some of you would be interested in contributing and trying to develop a compatibility library for Win9x and Mozilla, along the lines of what Robert Callahan posted in one of the bugzilla threads. Obviously there is still time to do this, but I thought it would be good to get discussions started early.

Let's see if anyone is interested! On my end, I have almost no knowledge of C++ programming, but I'd be glad to volunteer in other ways.

This post has been edited by ivanbuto: 23 April 2006 - 07:42 PM

[Tihiy]

Gimme plz link to ftp where that trunk resides.
I'll try to make that version running.

[modicr]

Hello!

http://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/fir...y/latest-trunk/
ftp://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/fir...y/latest-trunk/

ZIP:
http://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/fir...en-US.win32.zip

Installer:
http://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/fir...2.installer.exe

Regards, Roman

[Petr]

All developer related thing are here: http://www.mozilla.org/developer/

Petr

[Tihiy]

Well, current unimplemented APIs in 9x which won't allow Firefox 3 to run is
GetGlyphIndicesA/W
and UpdateLayeredWindow
First API can be implemented using this article:
http://support.micro...b/241020/EN-US/
Second API can be partially implemented for shaped non-translucent windows.

[ivanbuto]

Tihiy, on Apr 25 2006, 04:15 AM, said:

Well, current unimplemented APIs in 9x which won't allow Firefox 3 to run is
GetGlyphIndicesA/W
and UpdateLayeredWindow
First API can be implemented using this article:
http://support.micro...b/241020/EN-US/
Second API can be partially implemented for shaped non-translucent windows.

Tihiy, would you be able to write the patch refered to here? How difficult would something like that be?

Then, in a separate file, one would need to implement the functions. Currently it's those two, but I think they eventually plan to remove all "unnecessary" Win9x code from the official source code. For the Unicode functions, MSLU would have to be used, or Mozilla's MZLU/opencow. I'm not sure whether the "compatibility library" for Win9x would essentially be an extension and continuation of the MZLU project. I'm trying to get an answer in bugzilla.

[-I-]

probably stupid to ask but, firefox 2 wil prably be released this year.
and v3 next or the year after that....

looking at the computer timespan, why even concider gooing to that mutch truble for an OS that will hardly be able to run on a stock computer.

as i looked at the manual of my 939 mobo it does no longer support windows 9x me divers. just win2k and XP (and linux on the website). and this a mobo at the age (time since intro), of 1 and a half year...
would mean that youd like to build an os that doesn't run on any (new) computers since the last 2 years...
an avarage computer lives 5 this win vesion would than be more than twice a old as a computer should be living ...

but ofcaurse its always fun to try because you can...
even though i believe that if one would like to work in c+ (or something alike) creating Win api's
id would be of far greater use if contributed to WINE (for OpenSource Software).

[ivanbuto]

-I-, on Apr 29 2006, 09:31 PM, said:

looking at the computer timespan, why even concider gooing to that mutch truble for an OS that will hardly be able to run on a stock computer.

That is why the official builds won't support Windows 98 anymore. However, no reason why not to have a branch of Win9x compatible builds, so that people with older machines can use the latest Firefox stuff and improvements in internet technology.

Quote

an avarage computer lives 5 this win vesion would than be more than twice a old as a computer should be living ...

Well, how long "should" a computer be living? I don't like if someone tells me that my computer shouldn't live anymore, just because it's seven years old, and just because I don't see the point of having a throw away and replace mentality.

Additionally, the problem is that this "should be living" is determined by all kinds of factors, some of them having to do with politics and money. (See for example the reason why Adobe 7 or MSN Messenger 7.5 won't run on Windows 98.)

That being said, I don't think anyone is disputing some of the limitations of Win9x here.

Quote

but ofcaurse its always fun to try because you can...

Agreed!

[miko]

avarage computers don't 'live' five years lol

theoretically soild modern state electronics have an infinite lifespan

there are companys around with systems which were built before windows was even thought of,

my Amigas and Atari ST are around 24-25 years old and my earliest Nintendo console 19

my current TV was 'born' in 1976 (sony's first remote controlled trinitron i believe)
making it 30 years old this year.

i feel sorry for the younger generation sometimes,
some are more than a little brain washed into being ever the constant consumers methinks . . .

on Firefox, traditionally open source projects usually try to support as many OS platforms as possible,
ans (as the end users) we should encourage 9X platform support (alongside NT5) as much as possible imo

This post has been edited by miko: 30 April 2006 - 05:08 AM

[Eck]

I was advised by a TV repairman, who probably had somewhat of a conflict of interest, that my old Mitsubishi would last and last if I let him repair it. Whereas most new TV's are designed to last for about 2 years.

I let him repair it and it works great!

My old SiS5598 HP Pavilion 4430 still will run about as crappy as it ever ran. That doesn't mean I like running it except to relive old memories, but the point is it will still run.

But, yeah it sure would be nice to be able to keep Firefox updated for 9x. Especially for computers that are a bit newer but with owners who enjoy having a 9x operating system available for those old programs they still enjoy (like me).

[erpdude8]

ivanbuto, on Apr 29 2006, 10:51 PM, said:

Quote

an avarage computer lives 5 this win vesion would than be more than twice a old as a computer should be living ...

Well, how long "should" a computer be living? I don't like if someone tells me that my computer shouldn't live anymore, just because it's seven years old, and just because I don't see the point of having a throw away and replace mentality.

Additionally, the problem is that this "should be living" is determined by all kinds of factors, some of them having to do with politics and money. (See for example the reason why Adobe 7 or MSN Messenger 7.5 won't run on Windows 98.)

That being said, I don't think anyone is disputing some of the limitations of Win9x here.

Quote

but ofcaurse its always fun to try because you can...

Agreed!

well said ivanbuto. I had my cousin's old Compudyne Pentium one computer from a decade ago and it still runs good, even though I changed most of the parts (faster CPU, more RAM, faster video card, faster CD drive & bigger hard drive). I'm not gonna get rid of that ol' PC.

Nice to hear that Firefox 2.0 will work on Win98/ME systems. But right after Mozilla Corp. releases a major version of Firefox, the older major version becomes obsolete and they retire support for it (when FF 1.5 was released, FF 1.0x is no longer supported).

[erpdude8]

Hey MDGX. I just installed Firefox 1.5 on a Win95 machine and it works! I even installed Firefox 1.0x on a Win95 computer and it also works.

Too bad the uninstaller for Firefox 1.5.0.3 does not work at all whether I install FF 1.503 under Win95, 98 or ME. I have reported the "uninstaller" bug to Mozilla corp. and they should be able to fix the problem.

I'll wait until a stable firefox 2.0 beta to come out, then I'll test it.

[CLASYS]

miko, on Apr 30 2006, 06:46 AM, said:

avarage computers don't 'live' five years lol

theoretically soild modern state electronics have an infinite lifespan

there are companys around with systems which were built before windows was even thought of,

my Amigas and Atari ST are around 24-25 years old and my earliest Nintendo console 19

my current TV was 'born' in 1976 (sony's first remote controlled trinitron i believe)
making it 30 years old this year.

i feel sorry for the younger generation sometimes,
some are more than a little brain washed into being ever the constant consumers methinks . . .

What a newbie you are:

My LINC-8 is up and running and was my first computer in 1975 when it was already 9 years old. I have at least 20 computers older than your new-fangled toys!

LINC-8's run software based on pointing devices that interact with the screen stemming all the way back to the forerunner 1962 LINC. Anything called DOS [much less Windows] is clearly ripped off from a variety of Digital Equipment [DEC] O/S's all written prior to 1970.

Oh, and btw, Windows was NOT written by MS for PCs; rather it was written for the Rainbow in the '80's and only later grafted onto PCs.

I have the 1970 12" Sony first color set working fine [soon to need a convertor for digital TV I suppose, as do you!].

cjl [and don't get me started about the 029 keypunch and card-reader in the basement!]

[erpdude8]

erpdude8, on May 22 2006, 11:11 AM, said:

Hey MDGX. I just installed Firefox 1.5 on a Win95 machine and it works! I even installed Firefox 1.0x on a Win95 computer and it also works.

Too bad the uninstaller for Firefox 1.5.0.3 does not work at all whether I install FF 1.503 under Win95, 98 or ME. I have reported the "uninstaller" bug to Mozilla corp. and they should be able to fix the problem.

I'll wait until a stable firefox 2.0 beta to come out, then I'll test it.

OH MDGX!

The Firefox un-installer problem is NOT fixed in FF 1.5.0.4. Still had the problem removing FF 1.5 under Win9x. I think I sent you the old Firefox uninstaller from FF 1.5.0.1 that works under Win95/98/ME. You should post it up on your web site. I'll give you instructions on how Win95/98/ME users should use the older FF un-installer to remove Firefox 1.5.0.2, 1.5.0.3 or 1.5.0.4.

I had been told by Mozilla group that FF 2.0 will use a new installer/un-installer that should work properly under all 32bit versions of Windows. so the un-installer problem of Firefox will be fixed in FF 2.0.

[ivanbuto]

erpdude8, on Jun 5 2006, 11:03 AM, said:

I had been told by Mozilla group that FF 2.0 will use a new installer/un-installer that should work properly under all 32bit versions of Windows. so the un-installer problem of Firefox will be fixed in FF 2.0.

Yes, the recent Alpha 3 release of FF 2.0 has the new installer, and it indeed works fine, including installing and uninstalling shorcuts properly.

[HTS-500]

[spam_mode]
sorry for the 100% offtopic post, but i would not use firefox, is one of the worst browsers ever made (i dont know why people like it so much)... better use maxthon, it have dual engine (IE and Gecko, obiously not 1.9), its 100% compatible with windows 98 and have really low system requirements:
Minimum Requirements
100MHz CPU
32MB RAM
4MB Free Hard Disk Space
Microsoft Windows98
Microsoft Internet Explorer 5.5
[/spam_mode]

[modicr]

Hello!

I you don't like Firefox, I recommend SeaMonkey (I use also Opera and of course Maxthon)
http://www.mozillazi...ml?article=8761

Cheers, Roman

[erpdude8]

HTS-500, on Jun 5 2006, 09:54 PM, said:

[spam_mode]
sorry for the 100% offtopic post, but i would not use firefox, is one of the worst browsers ever made (i dont know why people like it so much)... better use maxthon, it have dual engine (IE and Gecko, obiously not 1.9), its 100% compatible with windows 98 and have really low system requirements:
Minimum Requirements
100MHz CPU
32MB RAM
4MB Free Hard Disk Space
Microsoft Windows98
Microsoft Internet Explorer 5.5
[/spam_mode]

GEE, I wonder why you dont like Firefox browsers, HTS-500. Have they been unstable on your computer or something?

I use FF 1.5.0.4 on my bro's XP SP2 and my WinME computer and they work fine; haven't received any Firefox crashes on both computers.

ivanbuto, on Jun 5 2006, 07:55 PM, said:

Yes, the recent Alpha 3 release of FF 2.0 has the new installer, and it indeed works fine, including installing and uninstalling shorcuts properly.

Did you test the FF 2.0 alpha 3 on a Win9x system, ivanbuto? You didnt say which version of Windows you have tested Firefox 2.0 on.

This post has been edited by erpdude8: 07 June 2006 - 09:29 AM

[erpdude8]

reading the latest post on the Firefox un-installer bug on Win9x systems:
https://bugzilla.moz...g.cgi?id=338752

The older Firefox remover can be downloaded here:
http://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/fir...tallFirefox.zip
Extract the UninstallFirefox.exe from that ZIP file and run the uninstaller to remove FF 1.5.0.2, 1.5.0.3 or 1.5.0.4 off a machine that has Win95, 98 or ME. the older remover is not needed for win2k/xp/2k3.

[-I-]

in last post i pointed out that a pc hase a avarage lifespan of about 5 years.
so than i installed windows 98 Lite on a 100mhz pc with 48mb EDO- ram.
than i tryed using moder software, but my 1gb hardisk was full,
i wanted to install a new extra drive but it was bigger than 8gb so the system failed with bios error,
i tryed flashing the Bios (with a kind of compatible version as i already had the last avail version.
it failed it was a 12 year old pc, and i had no alternative but to use as old software als the machine itself was.

thats why my 5 year limit isn't just realy srtange, modern software just ask for more resources to get you better on your way. people expact a computer build for 16 color WordPerfect 5.1 (for dos) to run Windows MediaCenter 2006

its just a matter of why should we encourage (or force) them to support windows 9x
in the end it will only prevent them from adding security or features. or even support for new windows versions
(like xp64, and thats used loads more than 9x).

and even if we do so, where is the line, DOS-support, Cobalt support, or does i have to run on an old nasa system thats actualy as tall as your entire house????

i think they've drawn a line

and i we want improvements we'd better branch them on Firfox 1.5 (with extrentions and plugins, than slowing down the development of for example the 3.0-branch