Sun Java and Flash Player Don't Mix

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#1 bearsowner

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Posted 25 July 2006 - 11:13 PM

I just updated to the latest version of Sun's Java and the latest version of Adobe's Macromedia Flash Player. Now on a lot of web pages in order to view some of Java applets I have to turn off Adobe's Macromedia Flash Player! I had to download a switch to turn Flash Player on and off.
This is really wild. When I turn off Flash Player the Java script comes up perfectly, but if there is a Flash Player on the page, it will not play of course because it is turned off. When I switch back and turn Flash Player back on, the page reloads and the Java script or applet will not appear, but can view the Flashplayer animations or video.
Is this the fault of:
Sun Java J2SE Runtime Enviroment
Adobe Macromedia Flash Player
or Internet Explorer 6 SP1

Anyone know of a fix for this, so I can get rid of the switch..

PS: Running Windows ME (98SE without System Restore, SFP and some other goodies)
This is my first post on here, but have been reading a lot of the posts. Lots of good info here, thanks.

#2 303

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Posted 26 July 2006 - 12:34 AM

You know what else doesn't mix?
Quicktime's startup crap file qttask.exe
It messes alot of stuff up, in my experience, esp. on 98 systems
I use Mike Lin's Startup Monitor to keep it "tame"
Good little tool and it's super lightweight
www.mlin.net check it out

As far as Java goes, on my XP box the control panel applet won't even run, even after I reinstalled it, latest vesion, too. And I thought XP was more stable, hah.

Haven't had any problems with Flash like you describe, though...

This post has been edited by 303: 26 July 2006 - 12:36 AM

#3 awergh

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Posted 26 July 2006 - 04:03 AM

on the point of quicktime you should use quicktime alternative which doesnt use qttask

#4 erpdude8

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Posted 26 July 2006 - 09:04 AM

bearsowner, on Jul 26 2006, 12:13 AM, said:

what kind of computer are you using, bearsowner? specify how fast your CPU is and how much RAM your computer has.

Flash Player 9 is crappy on machines slower than let's say 800Mhz PC with less than 256 megs of memory. Stick with Flash Player 8 or 7 as Flash Player 9 files are bigger and demand more resources. Recommended config for Flash Player 9 is a 1Ghz CPU with 256Mb or even 512Mb of memory.

303, on Jul 26 2006, 01:34 AM, said:

What version of Quicktime do you have on your XP computer, 303? I have Quicktime 7.1 (Quicktime 7 & higher do NOT work under Win98/ME/NT4 as they require Win2k/XP). also how fast is your XP machine (mention type & speed of CPU and how much RAM is installed).

My Sun Java software CAN run even under my WinME and WinXP machines (i'm using JRE 5.0 update 7). You have to enable it from your web browsers, NOT from the Java Control panel. From IE's Internet Properties Advanced tab dialog box, scroll down and find the Java [Sun] section and make sure the Use JRE checkbox is enabled. Also from Mozilla/Firefox browsers, check the Java box if it is unchecked.

If you still have problems with Sun Java, un-install it, delete the \Application Data\Sun\Java\ folder (if it exists), delete the "HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\JavaSoft" and "HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\JavaSoft" registry keys in Regedit, download a clean version of the Java software from the Sun Java site and re-install it.

BTW - my WinME machine is a Pentium 3 [766Mhz] with 256Mb of RAM and my WinXP machine is a Pentium 3 [1.2Ghz] with 384Mb of RAM. Both the Sun Java and Flash Players work correctly on my ME & XP computers.

This post has been edited by erpdude8: 26 July 2006 - 11:24 AM

#5 303

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Posted 26 July 2006 - 11:00 PM

Quote

Latest QT 7, but any since 6 or so I believe has had qttask... but it's no big deal with mlin's file monitor.

I know about setting Java prefs. in browsers, but after I try opening the CP applet I just get a blank grey box... it *used* to work, I don't know what happpend, but I'll try your suggestions! Thanks alot

#6 bearsowner

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Posted 27 July 2006 - 07:59 AM

erpdude8, on Jul 26 2006, 11:04 AM, said:

bearsowner, on Jul 26 2006, 12:13 AM, said:

303, on Jul 26 2006, 01:34 AM, said:

Adobe sent me an e-mail after I told them about my problem. They wanted a few URL's where I encounter the problem. I have not received anything else from them yet.

"what kind of computer are you using, bearsowner? specify how fast your CPU is and how much RAM your computer has."

HP 7950 AMD processor, Win ME OS, 1.2GHZ CPU Speed 384 Megs Ram..

I would think maybe this should be enough for FP 9.

I been thinking on the same lines as you, one of the two apps I have updated is causing the problem, either FP 9 or Sun Java's J2SE Runtime Enviroment 5.0 Update 7.

One may have to rivert back to an older version.

Can't hurt to try it.

This post has been edited by bearsowner: 27 July 2006 - 08:00 AM

#7 erpdude8

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Posted 27 July 2006 - 09:21 AM

303, on Jul 27 2006, 12:00 AM, said:

Quote

ok, but what kind of computer are you using, 303? check how much memory your PC has and what kind of CPU it has and how fast is the CPU on your computer?

bearsowner, on Jul 27 2006, 08:59 AM, said:

One may have to rivert back to an older version.

Can't hurt to try it.

You can un-install Flash 9 Player by using Flash Player un-installer:
http://download.macromedia.com/pub/flashpl...lash_player.exe

then you can install either Flash player 7 or 8.

Flash Player 8 (for both IE & Netscape/Mozilla browsers) can now be found here:
http://fpdownload.macromedia.com/get/flash...fp8_archive.zip

Flash 7 player ActiveX Control for Internet Explorer browsers:
http://download.macromedia.com/pub/flashpl...r7r63_winax.exe

Flash 7 player for Netscape/Mozilla/Firefox/Opera browsers:
http://download.macromedia.com/pub/flashpl...yer7r63_win.exe

#8 bearsowner

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Posted 27 July 2006 - 10:28 AM

So far this is what I have done.

Uninstalled Flash Player 9 and Installed Flash Player 8

Uninstalled Sun Java J2SE Runtime Enviroment 5.0 Update 7 (lastest version)

Also deleted the two registry keys as erpdude suggestged

Re-installed Sun Java J2SE Runtime Enviroment 5.0 Update 7 (same version, I have the offline installer downloaded and save it for instances like this, makes things a lot faster)

In the Advanced Tab under Internet Tools Options, Sun Java is already checked off

When I go back to Tools and click on Sun Java Console I get an error: "Sun Java is not currently selected as the default Java for the browser" and then instructions on how to do it.

In actuallity it is checked off and there is no other Java to choose from since MSJVM has been uninstalled.
Using updated and current version of IE6 SP1 for WinME

By the way the problem still exists at least at this URL:

http://newyork.mets....ex.jsp?c_id=nym

Should I try Flash Player 7? lol

Or an earlier version of Sun Java?

It seems I have a compatibility problem...

#9 MDGx

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Posted 27 July 2006 - 12:20 PM

I have tried the New York Mets official web page, and had no problems.
I used Win98 SE + Flash 9 [latest] + Sun Java 1.50 update 2 [older].
I have tried this also on my WinXP SP2 computer, with same versions of Sun Java + Flash.
No problems.
Microsoft JVM is also installed on both my Win98 SE + XP SP2, but it is disabled from Sun Java control panel.
Never had problems running either Java nor Flash.
Java control panel always worked for me.
The only thing is, I have not tried Sun Java 1.50 update 7 yet.

Download links:
- Sun Java [latest versions]:
http://www.mdgx.com/add.htm#JAVA
- Flash [all versions]:
http://www.mdgx.com/toy.htm#SHFL

IMHO:
I don't think this issue is related to either Java or Flash, but to bad/poor/sloppy design on certain web sites.
I would contact the webmasters of such web sites and ask them to test their scripts in same environments as yours, and eventually revise/rewrite the scripts to make sure they are compatible with all [newer] versions of Java + Flash out there and all newer Windows OSes, and eventually put in place server side scripts to disable Java/Flash/old browsers/etc if detected older versions they consider obsolete/buggy/unworthy supporting/etc.

HTH

#10 bearsowner

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Posted 28 July 2006 - 12:04 AM

I respect your honest opinion, but doubt it is the websites fault because this problem exists on more than one website.

Ironically all these problems came about when I uninstalled Microsofts Java Virtual Machine Build 3810. When I was usin MSJVM I had no problems at all, but I was convinced by another party, whom I would like to choke right now, to get rid of MSJVM and get Sun's Java.

I have tried several times unsuccessfully to to re-install MSJVM and used erpdude's method. I get to a point where it almost fully installed, but right at the end I get an error that says: "There is a device connected to this system that is not operating correctly" or something to that nature. I have no devices that I know that are not working correctly, but that depends what they mean by "devices". I am starting to think "devices" might mean VXD.dll files. I have 3 VXD.dll files set to ".old". I am going to set them back to ".vxd" and try to get MSJVM back on my machine and dump Sun Java. With rational thinking now, it must be Sun Java causing the problem, because like I said I had no problems when runnng MSJVM.

#11 erpdude8

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Posted 28 July 2006 - 09:15 AM

bearsowner, on Jul 28 2006, 01:04 AM, said:

I have tried several times unsuccessfully to to re-install MSJVM and used erpdude's method. I get to a point where it almost fully installed, but right at the end I get an error that says: "There is a device connected to this system that is not operating correctly" or something to that nature. I have no devices that I know that are not working correctly, but that depends what they mean by "devices". I am starting to think "devices" might mean VXD.dll files. I have 3 VXD.dll files set to ".old". I am going to set them back to ".vxd" and try to get MSJVM back on my machine and dump Sun Java. With rational thinking now, it must be Sun Java causing the problem, because like I said I had no problems when runnng MSJVM.

actually the tips I mentioned were for Windows XP and may not apply to Windows 98/ME.

when removing Sun Java, did you do it from Add/Remove programs. I did that on my WinME machine and it almost removed every Sun Java component. Note that Sun Java's installer uses Windows Installer so you also need to remove some things that Windows Installer missed.

First of all, un-install Sun Java from Add/Remove programs first then reboot. Then check the following things:

delete the \Windows\Application Data\Sun\ folder if it exists.
search for the J2SE Runtime Environment 5.0 Update 7.msi file; if it exists delete it.
if \Program Files\Java\ folder is still there delete that folder [on my WinME PC, Windows Installer removed that folder during un-install]
if \Program File\Common Files\Java\ folder remained, delete the folder [on my WinME PC, un-install should have removed that folder].
Then from Registry Editor [regedit.exe] delete the following registry keys if they still exist:
"HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\JavaSoft" and "HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\JavaSoft"

Then download a clean version of Sun Java Runtime here:
https://sdlc6c.sun.com:443/ECom/EComActionS...D5A1A3410152E92
and run setup.

I definitely do NOT want to get rid of MS Java since it runs good on all of my computers. whoever advised you to un-install MS Java sure was NOT a big help; avoid following any future advice from them from now on.

Before re-installing MS Java, I would delete the \WINDOWS\JAVA\ folder first, then re-install MSJVM.

This post has been edited by erpdude8: 28 July 2006 - 09:24 AM

#12 bearsowner

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Posted 28 July 2006 - 11:29 AM

Also there are about 10 or 11 System files that were changed to "dummy.exe" in WinME when MSJVM was uninstalled that have to be deleted in order to do a re-install of MSJVM

What I missed was the Windows\Java folder on my last attempt

You might also want to delete that one windows\system\CatRoot file that begins with F750E
When you restart, windows makes a new F750E file...

I am determined to get MSJVM back on my system without having to do a OS re-install!

#13 MDGx

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Posted 01 August 2006 - 12:13 AM

bearsowner, on Jul 27 2006, 11:04 PM, said:

Just because there is more than 1 web site out there incompatible with Sun Java, that doesn't mean Java programming is the cause of your errors.
This problem has been discussed in details a while back, when MS discontinued support for MSJVM, and started recommending Sun Java as alternative for Java server based programming.
But a *lot* of web sites at the time didn't listen or comply, out of lack of resources, laziness etc, or simply didn't care if users switched to Sun Java. They just kept their old scripts which are compatible only with MSJVM.
And that's because MSJVM [as you may know already] is an obsolete proprietary version of Java compiled by M$, specifically for their Internet Explorer browsers.

And it seems this issue is still valid today with some web sites, which used to/still are [probably] programming for [obsolete] MSJVM compatibility, *not* accounting for the millions of users who already switched to Sun Java interface.
If you have the time/care to read about these issues, please do a Google search, I'm sure a lot of articles are still available.

On the other hand, I'm sure there are still flaws in Sun Java that can be/will be fixed sooner or later.
If you send them email with the specific errors you encountered at which web site(s), maybe they'll test those environments and eventually fix the problem(s), if those problems are still actual, and if they still support those platforms.

IMHO:
Anyway, just because Sun Java doesn't work on a few poorly programmed web sites, that is not a good reason to down-grade back to the obsolete MSJVM.
And if you wish to delete the dummy MSJVM files, and eventually reinstall MSJVM, please see:
http://www.mdgx.com/add.htm#JVM

FYI:
Beta releases of Sun Java 1.6 do not support/install on Win9x [95/98/ME] OSes anymore, only NTx OSes [2000/XP/2003/Vista].
The only releases that support 9x OSes are 1.5.xx:
http://www.mdgx.com/add.htm#JAVA

HTH

#14 bearsowner

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Posted 01 August 2006 - 12:36 PM

Thank you for all that information. It has been quite helpful.

Since then I did finally re-install MSJVM Build 3810 ( I manually deleted all the "dummy" files that were left after using the uninstall app). I downloaded Build 3809 first, then updated with Build 3810. Did a jview and it showed that Build 3810 was indeed installed on my computer and working properly.

Also, I re-installed Sun Java's J2SE Runtime Enviroment 5.0 Update 7.

Both Javas running side by side, because I did run across one site I frequently visit that needs Sun's Java, like you said, some sites updated, some did not...

The problem I have has nothing to do with Java as I found out. The problem stems from the installation of Adobe's Macromedia Flash Player and it doesn't matter what version I use, the problem still exists. How I found this out was I competely removed all Java from from computer according to erpmans directions. Tried the web page with Flash Player installed. The problem was still there. I uninstalled Flash Player and the problem was gone.

When Flash Player is installed, the page will not show or download certain text on the page, and, get this, there are NO Flash movies or animations on the page either!

The page is written with NASApp... more about that here: http://access1.sun.c...es/context.html

Evidently pages written using Sun's application will not work when Flash Player is installed on my machine.

The text I am missing are modules on the page using NASApp! That is why only certain parts of the page are missing and not all.

This would be something I would like see someone solve. It could be something embedded in IE6, but more likely I am missing something in my registry or in one of the components of IE6.

Anyone want to try and solve this? lol

#15 eidenk

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Posted 01 August 2006 - 02:15 PM

IE 5.5 SP2 on Win ME with Flash 8 and JRE 5.0 Update 7 and no problem to view this page here.

#16 bearsowner

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Posted 01 August 2006 - 11:25 PM

"IE 5.5 SP2 on Win ME with Flash 8 and JRE 5.0 Update 7 and no problem to view this page here."

I sure hope not!

This is one of the sites that is giving me trouble, the module at the top of page does open and also the schedule underneither the photos of the pitchers:

http://newyork.mets....ex.jsp?c_id=nym

#17 erpdude8

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Posted 02 August 2006 - 09:41 AM

no problem with that site. and I'm using Flash Player 9, Sun Java 5.0 Update 7 and Windows XP SP2 with IE6 SP2.

will try this on my WinME machine later.

#18 Shindo_Hikaru

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Posted 02 August 2006 - 10:06 AM

I have tested the site you have posted with the following configuration.

Versions Installed.
Sun Java Runtime 5.0 Update 7
Adobe Flash Player 9

Internet Browsers
Microsoft Internet Browswer 7 Beta
Opera 9
Firefox

No unusal activiy or errors reported.

#19 bearsowner

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Posted 02 August 2006 - 12:25 PM

Absolutely correct, no problems with the site. The problem exists at my end. The top module on the left does not open or does the schedule to the right.

If I disable Flash Player 9, the two modules open. There is a conflict somewhere either in my browser, IE6 SP1, or a registry value that is not letting the modules open with Flash Player enabled.

The fact is I many never figure out why this is happening on my computer.

I tried fixing IE6 and also did a complete re-install of IE6, but that doesn't mean it still isn't corrupted.

I have to make sure it does the same thing when using IE 5.5, I almost sure it does, saying that I then have to believe it's in the registry somewhere.