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[Help] Do not enable PAE

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23 replies to this topic

#1
Camarade_Tux

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Hi,

I have a new computer with 2GB RAM and an A643000+ and windows enabled PAE.
But I don't need or want PAE : 2GB is not 4GB.

According to sysinternal's boot.ini reference I should be able to use a /NOPAE switch in boot.ini but this has no effect. At least on XP SP2.

Does anyone have an idea ?

Thanks. :)


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#2
Sonic

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How do you check PAE status ? Why disable PAE ?
Perhaps you want to disable DEP instead ?
/noexecute=alwaysoff


#3
Camarade_Tux

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No it's PAE I want to be disabled.
It's listed in System (right-click "my computer", under the amount of RAM you may have "physical adress extension")


PAE just needs more memory. It uses 64-bit adresses (2^32=4GB and 2^64=much more). But theses adresses have to be stored somewhere and programs end up using more memory.
I have enough memory but this is pure waste.
ATM I'm running XP SP1a and have no problem with that. "Processus Inactif" takes 16KB of memory. Under SP2 with PAE, it uses 28KB. Only 12KB more but that +75%!
(that's another method to know wheteher PAE is enabled or not)
If PAE adds 33% to BF2's memory requirement, I'm going to have problems (just an example, I don't like BF2, it's annoying and unfriendly) :rolleyes:

#4
cluberti

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Yes, but your processor supports and implements hardware DEP - and on Windows XP and 2003 x86 versions, this automatically enables the PAE kernel, as this is the only way for x86 versions of Windows XP and 2003 to be able to utilize the hardware DEP capabilities of the processor. Disabling PAE also disables the capabilities of the OS to use the hardware DEP functionality, and to truly disable PAE on the OS with a processor that implements hardware DEP, you should use the /noexecute=AlwaysOff and /nopae boot.ini options. This should disable PAE (but also disable DEP).
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#5
Camarade_Tux

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Ok. Thanks. I'll try that and reboot asap.
And I usually disable DEP : I had some problems with that. :/

#6
Camarade_Tux

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My boot.ini has this:
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP Professionnel" /noexecute=AlwaysOff /nopae /fastdetect

And PAE is still enabled. :?

#7
Mr Snrub

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Case sensitive maybe?

KB900524 describes the switches, backing up what cluberti said.

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#8
Aegis

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I don't think PAE is enabled, because my System Idle Process is at 28KB as well. Might just be a peculiarity of SP2, or that I have DEP enabled as well :). One (risky) way to check is to remove the PAE kernel files (ntkrnlpa.exe and ntkrnlpamp.exe) and if your system still boots, then you don't have it enabled. If it doesn't...well you can't hold me liable for any damages :P.

#9
Camarade_Tux

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...
Forgot to report:

Posted Image

And DEP is disabled, for sure.

/NOPAE instead of /nopae has no effect.

:?

Edited by Camarade_Tux, 07 August 2006 - 12:57 AM.


#10
Innocent Devil

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firstly remove u r PID

then simple googling
PAE memory and windows

u r problem may be due to the pagefile

windows allocates initial pagefilesize as abt 1.5 x RAM
so u have 2 + 3 = 5 GB
which definitely require PAE
"The level of security that Vista is trying to achieve to protect video and audio is more extreme than anything the US government has ever considered necessary for protecting its most sensitive classified data."

Read Full Article @ [A Cost Analysis of Windows Vista Content Protection]

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#11
Aegis

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That can't be it, because it says I have PAE enabled as well, but I've turned off my PF, so the total amount of virtual memory in my system is still 2GB, which shouldn't require PAE.

#12
HyperHacker

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That might just tell you it supports PAE, not that it's enabled.
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#13
Aegis

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Pentium 4 supports it, yet:

http://www.neowin.ne...082/sysprop.jpg

#14
Innocent Devil

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no thats not it enables PAE

the PAE indication in system properties is controlled my
[HKLM\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\SessionManagemnt\MemoryManagemnet\PhysicalAdressExtension] Value
it is set by the kernel

i have my System idle process memory 28KB with DEP enabled

when i disabled DEP (and so PAE by microsoft webpage) System idle process memory is 16KB

so there is some memory effect as Camarade_Tux said

i heard somewhere that
ntoskrnl.exe and ntkrnlmp.exe are for Uni ,Multi processors < 1GB respectevely
ntkrnlpa.exe and ntkrpamp.exe for > 1GB respectevely

these kernels may have PAE support
so if the processor supports it may benabled

another point is that if DEP enabled it may forces PAE to be on if the processor supports it

The PAE kernel can be enabled automatically without the /PAE switch present in the boot entry if the system has DEP enabled (/NOEXECUTE switch is present) or the system processor supports hardware-enforced DEP. Presence of the /NOEXECUTE switch on a system with a processor that supports hardware-enforced DEP implies the /PAE switch. If the system processor is capable of hardware-enforced DEP and the /NOEXECUTE switch is not present in the boot entry, Windows assumes /NOEXECUTE=optin by default and enables PAE mode.


Edited by Innocent Devil, 06 August 2006 - 09:47 PM.

"The level of security that Vista is trying to achieve to protect video and audio is more extreme than anything the US government has ever considered necessary for protecting its most sensitive classified data."

Read Full Article @ [A Cost Analysis of Windows Vista Content Protection]

Don't be lame [Linux is NOT Windows]

#15
Camarade_Tux

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firstly remove u r PID


Thanks. :ph34r:


And, I've set my pagefile to 512MB so I shouldn't need PAE either.

I'll make a C app soon to check wether PAE is enabled or not : you just need to have a pointer and check if it's 32-bit or 64-bit.


And I already tried with /NOEXECUTE=alwaysoff : it has no effect on PAE, only on DEP.
I'll check my bios btw.

#16
Camarade_Tux

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Yesterday, I searched some things on memory usage as shown in Task Manager.

On a page explaining the numbers show by this app, I read the on in "Commit Charge : Total" was the size of the virtual memory.

See this screenshot:

Posted Image

So I have 2.5GB of virtual memory though I only have a 512MB swap file. :/
2GB of physical RAM + 2.5GB of virtual memory makes 4.5GB. This needs PAE.
As I shown just before, PAE makes you loose some memory with pointers. Lost is around 1/3. A quick calculation shows that 4.5GB with PAE is just like 3.3GB without : 1.2GB difference! :ph34r:


This went so high because ONE day, ONE SINGLE day, I've used lots of memory and XP increased virtual memory size (which was stupid because I still had lots of free memory)
And now, the reason why this does not happened under XP SP1a : the install with XP SP1a is a sort of test. Moreover, I've been too lazy too install drivers so I don't use it and I windows never had any reason to increase VM size.
At least I now know that VM size is not resetted upon reboot.

Edited by Camarade_Tux, 03 September 2006 - 07:18 AM.


#17
Aegis

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I think you've done your caculations wrong. Virtual memory is the amount of physical memory and memory from the swap files combined. So if you have 2GB of RAM and a 512MB page file, then your virtual memory would be 2.5GB, exactly what Task Manager reported.

#18
Camarade_Tux

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If finally got rid of PAE.

Simple, stupid solution.
Edit boot.ini, add /KERNEL=ntkrnl.exe, reboot.
:yes:



@Aegis, you were right. ;)

#19
HyperHacker

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Nice.
BTW, did you guys mean your "System Idle Process" was using 16/28KB, or just "System"? Because the former on my computer is using zero while the latter uses 1,876K. :blink:
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#20
cluberti

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The "Idle" process isn't exactly "idle" - things do actually run in the idle process (believe it or not), and the SYSTEM process is the representation of things running in kernel. That's actually a pretty low number for the SYSTEM process :).
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#21
HyperHacker

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OK, but why is mine so much higher than theirs?
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#22
Camarade_Tux

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28/18KB is for "System Idle Process". ;)

#23
cluberti

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Do you have any chipset or processor power monitoring software installed, like Intel's chipset application with a core single/duo or Pentium M, or AMD's powernow?

You could always take a look at the process with Process Explorer or dump it out with adplus to see what's running in there too.
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#24
MyDyingBride

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(...)
I'll make a C app soon to check wether PAE is enabled or not : you just need to have a pointer and check if it's 32-bit or 64-bit.
(...)


sorry, but you don't know what you are talking about :lol:

on 32bit windows xp your application can never ever address more than 2^32 bytes of virtual memory without the use of special api functionality (awe api), because your logical addresses are still 32bit wide, so your pointer will always be 32bit wide - pae or not. however since those days when intel brought us the pentium pro, they added 4 bits to the physical (!) address, giving us 2^36 bytes of addressable physical memory (64GB). but besides the fact that even pae enabled xp is limited to 4GB of total physical memory, you have to keep in mind that the address translation process from 32bit virtual memory space to 36bit physical memory space is entirely handled by xp's memory management subsystem and therefore totally transparent to the user....

for more information on this topic you may review these sites:

http://en.wikipedia....dress_Extension
http://www.microsoft...PAE/pae_os.mspx
http://www.microsoft...PAE/PAEdrv.mspx

have fun ;)




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