[Drugwash]

soporific said:

[...] can people please give feedback on my proposal.

Here's mine: one thing I strongly disliked when I first got my hands on XP was this "safety procedure" of copying all the files on HDD, thus taking up space. While nowadays, generally, HDD space is not a problem anymore for most users, there may still be a certain amount of people that for some reason are stuck with old hardware, including small HDDs.

Personally I have a couple of 1.2-2GB HDDs that I intend to use for various tests, and having the installation archives copied on the HDD would take up unnecessary space, possibly preventing me from installing other needed packs/applications/etc. But even if this wasn't the case, I still can't see why I would waste that space with files I'll most probably never need again, when I could simply insert the CD/DVD if I would ever have to.

If possible - and I can't see why it wouldn't be - the best solution would be for you to add an option for the user to choose whether the installation would use the optical drive as a source or the archives would be copied to the HDD. When the latter is chosen, please allow for the user to specify a path for the source archives to be copied to, as I imagine someone might want to select a different drive/folder for the source files.

[bayou75]

Soporific:

There seems to be a problem with your hoster for the 1.7 package. I have been trying to download the file for days and all I get is an error page. Can't get into the mega-file site. You might want to look into this.

Bayou75

[Eck]

Hey,

I make a folder C:\WINDOWS\OPTIONS and then a CABS folder within the OPTIONS folder. Then I copy the contents of the 98SE cd's Win98 folder into it and in regedit change the source locations of OLS to C:\WINDOWS\OPTIONS\CABS\OLS and the source directory to C:\WINDOWS\OPTIONS\CABS.

So I install from the cd but then copy the files to the hard drive so I needn't be bothered inserting it again.

But this doesn't do the trick for Internet Explorer updates. Those look for the location of Windows Update, which becomes the Internet Explorer cd if I install IE6 SP1 from that cd.

I just installed 98SE into VMWare and just installed the 98 Plus! pack, the Windows 98 Resouce Kit Full, the System Policy Editor, WinZip 10 and WinRAR 3.62 (so I could extract the auto-patcher Alpha 7 update), and the Creative SBPCI VXD drivers and software.

Then I ran auto-patcher and this time turned off/on the stuff I wanted from it. I turned off the 98SE2ME and 98MP10 as I will be installing those myself. I installed Dialup Networking 1.4 when prompted by auto-patcher and installed WebFolders update after auto-patcher was finished. I had activated the WMEncoder, Explorer slowdown copy big files fixes and VBRun stuff and deactivated the 137GB fix, Command Prompt Here, CopyTo/SendTo, and Add/Remove tweaks. What is that Add/Remove control panel applet tweak? I didn't want to install it without knowing what it did.

One overlap you should be made aware of is the Windows Me ScanFrag installation. When a user installs 98SE2ME full version, that program installs the Windows Me versions for ScanDisc and Defrag. You might want to make ScanFrag an option you can toggle on or off in auto-patcher. Those who want to install the full version of 98SE2ME after auto-patcher would then get the Windows Me versions.

I'm going to install DotNET 1.1, 1.1SP1 and DotNET 2.0, then install 98SE2ME and 98MP10. Let's see whether I experience powrprof.dll errors or weird XP style explorer toolbars and icons or device/startup item problems. I don't mind so much since it's in VMWare and I didn't spend a lot of time installing things before auto-patcher. I CAN tell you that WMP 9 opens and runs fine at this point.

As far as the Internet Explorer cabs go, I'm not certain where you could put them where Windows Update would find them. I'm not certain exactly how that works, but I wouldn't mind them being on the hard drive. Even in VMWare, I made the virtual hard drive 32GB with all allocated initially. That's plenty of room for stuff if I don't copy my mp3 music collection into it. In a real system, I would use a minimum of 80GB for 98SE (sometimes giving it 120GB) and then I do copy my 17GB music collection to the My Music folder. No need to in VMWare. I'll probably use XP to listen to music mostly in this case.

But if this works without errors I will be wiping everything and installing 98SE to a real hard drive. I think. Still squeemish about that IOS bootup error I got a lot of times. That never happens in VMWare.

This post has been edited by Eck: 02 January 2007 - 10:33 AM

[Eck]

Good news. I successfully installed 98SE2ME and 98MP10 without any weird errors or toolbar antics. So whatever I deactivated in auto-patcher to avoid duplication worked. Windows Media Player 9 runs fine and has the mp3 codec from WMP10.

I notice that 98SE2ME installs the nice Windows 2000/Me color scheme without the font style change that Gape's Unofficial 98SE Service pack has. That's nice. I disliked the unusual looking font the last time I tried it. So I'm happy there too.

One strange thing is back though. The My Computer desktop icon is the normal default 98SE icon but once again Display Properties and the Theme Manager both show the newer icon that Explorer.exe uses.

Instead of messing around to change it I'm going to leave the old icon there. As long as they are all old, it looks proper. So I don't mind that. If I want to change them all to the Windows 2000/Me style I have a Windows Me theme that has those, so I could change to them with the Theme Manager.

Now lets see what happens when I install my printer and Microsoft Works/Office stuff. I used to do that first but didn't want to take the time until I saw how the auto-patcher and MDGx updates worked out.

[soporific]

Eck, I'll try out the "IE setup files on the hard disk" thingy and get back to you... is there a quick way to check if this works? What can we do to force the OS to try to refer to the place it thinks the IE cab files are kept?

NEW QUESTION:

regarding MDGx's latest version of NUSB24.EXE ...

I am now including this as a proper install within auto-patcher (instead of a manual install) but to properly code for it I need to create a new routine. I have eliminated virtually all installs that will go out of date but to do this for NUSB24.EXE is a bit tricky. The problem is how to differentiate between NUSB24.EXE and NUSB23e.EXE, but also future-proof the title. A problem will occur if i only check for the file size of USBSTOR.INF --- if a future version is released and someone installs this manually, and then tries to run the existing auto-patcher, the method above would try to re-install the old version. This probably won't matter too much (the old version just wont install anything if the hotfix is compiled properly) but it breaks the philosophy of this project --- nothing should be installed if it isn't needed. And the report function would give false reports about this title, which is a no no.

The way I've worked out is to perform 2 checks ---- the main difference between all the releases of NUSB seems to be USBSTOR.INF and so one of the checks will be checking to see if the size in bytes of USBSTOR.INF is exactly 20,387 bytes but in order to future proof it, I should also check the file version of one of the files. So my first question is: ... which of the files included in NUSB24.EXE that we can check the file version of, is MOST LIKELY to be updated in a future version of this title???

Or can people think of another way to solve this problem ... let me re-state it just in case --- the problem is: how can we see if this title has already been installed WITHOUT stopping future versions of this title from being installed? If we can differentiate between NUSB24.EXE and NUSB23e.EXE then the problem should be solved. Its just that it seems that all the files that we can check the file version of --- they are all exactly the same in both NUSB24.EXE and NUSB23e.EXE --- hopefully I'm wrong because this would solve the problem, but it seems not.

What's a guy to do?

Oh, and the next release of this project i want to be a BETA release --- can anyone see a problem with this?

Also, a new dedicated hoster for auto-patcher will be available soon -- as soon as I can get a CD to a guy in Canada, it will be available.

And I will also be releasing a combined version of the unattended boot Cd project and auto-patcher. I'm just testing it now, but it is SOOOOO GOOD to be able to set whichever custom version of Windows 98 I want (ie keyboard & regional setting, etc) and then start the install and two hours later have a completely patched and ready to go clean installation of Win98se. No MSN icon on the desktop, Dial-Up Networking 1.4 gets installed automatically (it installs nicely with a RUNONCE command just before the last reboot of the installation process), and AutoPatcher, sorry I mean auto-patcher, starts automatically and runs all the way to the end. Jolly good show it all is. BUT ..... I'm sure this could do with more collaboration. Whoever wants to join forces with me to make a really kick-arse version of the combined UBCD and AP, IS MORE THAN WELCOME!!!! We will completely split the credit.

This post has been edited by soporific: 03 January 2007 - 07:52 PM

[Eck]

Went through what I toggled off in posts in 98MP10 and 98SE2ME threads. I just didn't want to type all that again. Mostly it was just toggling off 98SE2ME and 98MP10 in auto-patcher and installing them myself afterwards. I mentioned the rest in those other threads.

Just real happy with the result being a fully patched. working system and not one with weird malfunctioning like last time.

It's a riot watching this thing work. It zips through everything it used to take me hours and hours to install.

[soporific]

Eck, on Jan 4 2007, 11:43 AM, said:

It's a riot watching this thing work. It zips through everything it used to take me hours and hours to install.

I think one of the reasons for insisting the program check to see if an install is needed before installing, is so all my coding work can be seen!!! All the other service packs just do their thing regardless and all the magic is hidden away ...

The main way I check to see if all the checking code works is to run auto-patcher twice. It is only when I have nothing installing the second time around that tells me if it works. So, i'd be interested to know the results of running auto-patcher a second time after the first run has finished. Your log file should report that nothing was installed. Can you do this for me and post the result? Or just report that nothing installs if that is the case.

Cheers man. I also re-edited the post before yours, re-read it can ya?

The broken link to v1.7 --- maybe I should lay off the green stuff ... there were orignally 2 links to the v1.7 update --- so what do I do? I delete the one that works, leaving the link to nowhere as the only place to get v1.7 --- D'OH !! --- and I nearly couldn't find the URL !!!! I found it near the bottom of my history list in firefox .... geez I love my firefox!!

This post has been edited by soporific: 03 January 2007 - 08:36 PM

[Eck]

Wow! Your PM appeared on my screen as soon as I returned to the forum. Never saw that before, but it sure made things fast.

Anyway, I wish I knew about the Internet Explorer source files secret. I know where the 98 OS source file registry entry is, the HKLM\Software\Microsoft\Windows\Current Version\Setup place. But no idea where IE looks for its stuff.

This could get dangerous if we find it. I remember that the error box pops up when I choose to install the particular language a website needs saying something like, "couldn't locate Windows Update." I insert the Internet Explorer cd and the thing takes off and installs the language stuff it needs.

I would hate to change the Windows Update source location only to find that the real Windows Update would be fubar'd by that!

Maybe if your Internet Explorer installer would include the whole full version it could be set to extract all its files permanentely to a particular folder and setup from that folder. Then if one needs language files or an Intenet Explorer repair it would know that's where it gets the files from. Perhaps it will know automatically? It finds the cd automatically (no need to browse to it) if I have it in the tray when having it install a language. But maybe that's just because Windows is checking the cd drive first for any installation files. In XP you can add to a list in the registry entry for installation sources, but I don't think 98 has that.

Is your IE install set to install Full or Typical? When running the cd version I always change it to full. That way I get all but the language stuff. I don't want all those languages installed, especially not the input stuff. I hate the language systray stuff that eats up resources if the input items are installed.

I see your point about the USB updaters. Nearly all the updaters for this stuff will install what's included no matter what had been already installed on the system. I think your installer is nearly unique in that it checks to see what's there and then skips things if they've already been installed.

Microsoft installers for their software packages such as Office will install everything it's been designed to install. The only things prevented are built in Windows protections regarding dll's. Windows (even 98SE) is supposed to check the version being replaced and not do it if it's newer than what the software installer is trying to put there. Of course, often times this breaks stuff as the setup program installed a whole bunch of related files that depend upon the version Windows balked at. Windows is supposed to put the older file in the program folder where the software will look first. But this doesn't work when there's a lot of sharing of dll's, files being used, etc.

Ha! Dll hell caused paragraph hell!

I forsee a lot of obsolete updates wrecking havoc on my system when I install my Works/Office stuff now, after having used the auto-patcher and 98SE2ME/98MP10 with all the latest updates. Well, it's VMWare. Let's see what happens.

That's kind of why I like XP's System File Protection. "Usually" that will prevent Windows from breaking.

[soporific]

Eck, on Jan 3 2007, 02:29 AM, said:

One overlap you should be made aware of is the Windows Me ScanFrag installation. When a user installs 98SE2ME full version, that program installs the Windows Me versions for ScanDisc and Defrag. You might want to make ScanFrag an option you can toggle on or off in auto-patcher. Those who want to install the full version of 98SE2ME after auto-patcher would then get the Windows Me versions.

I'm a bit confused by this point...

1) doesn't ScanFrag install the ME versions of scandisk and defrag?? this is what my Updates list tells me:

ScanFrag - 2005 Mar 23 - 521kb - dl I - Unoffical update of Defrag and Scandisk to Windows ME versions (highly recommended)

2) this situation is unlike the duplication in the XP mp3 codec and MDGX's WMP replacement pack --- in that situation, both can be installed from AutoPatcher, sorry i mean auto-patcher, but in this case, the user doesn't have the option to install the full Win98 to ME pack --- but if I'm wrong about point 1, then it will be good to offer it as an optional install ... maybe I should do it anyway (make it optional) ... I'll decide after some feedback

[Eck]

Hmm. Not sure what happens. I suppose ScanFrag installs the Windows Me versions then a seperate install of 98SE2ME would just replace them with the same files. However the backup created by 98SE2ME would have the Windows Me files there instead of the 98SE ones. Not that we'd ever want to reinstall the 98SE versions!

Yeah, I suppose this one shouldn't matter much but it is an overlap of features. Everyone should get the Windows Me versions but it's just a question of when they get it, or in this case get it twice.

[oscardog]

Sorry only had time for a quick glance, but could you check in Usbstor.inf at these lines
;Modified - 06/01/2006, 01.01
;Maximus Decim modified - 06/14/2006, 01.02
for nusb23e
whilst
;Modified - 06/01/2006, 01.01
;Maximus Decim modified - 06/14/2006, 01.02
;Maximus Decim modified - 08/31/2006, 01.03 add iPod, fix Sony Digital Camera
;Maximus Decim modified - 09/02/2006, 01.04 add LayoutFile
For nusb24

[soporific]

oscardog, on Jan 4 2007, 09:37 PM, said:

Sorry only had time for a quick glance, but could you check in Usbstor.inf at these lines
;Modified - 06/01/2006, 01.01
;Maximus Decim modified - 06/14/2006, 01.02
for nusb23e
whilst
;Modified - 06/01/2006, 01.01
;Maximus Decim modified - 06/14/2006, 01.02
;Maximus Decim modified - 08/31/2006, 01.03 add iPod, fix Sony Digital Camera
;Maximus Decim modified - 09/02/2006, 01.04 add LayoutFile
For nusb24

Actually, this seems to be the best bet ... I can use NSET to search for the line containing 01.04 and if it can't find then the title can be installed, if it is found, I then check the next line to see if its blank or has something there --- I don't even have to do any math because as long as Maximus Decim keeps the same style of reporting which version it is, shouldn't be a prob.

So thanks for the tip!!

EDIT: I have tested the above method and it works a treat. Hardly any code, and no math calculations. Here's hoping Maximus D keeps the same format for versioning the INF file.

This post has been edited by soporific: 04 January 2007 - 09:53 PM

[soporific]

Eck, on Jan 4 2007, 03:50 PM, said:

Maybe if your Internet Explorer installer would include the whole full version it could be set to extract all its files permanentely to a particular folder and setup from that folder. Then if one needs language files or an Intenet Explorer repair it would know that's where it gets the files from. Perhaps it will know automatically?

Ok, the version I used to have for Internet Explorer 6 sp1 was the "full" version --- but that was still missing all the language packs -- -all the Full version installs is the auto-language selection thingy ... so it seems the best thing to do is actually include all the language packs and these files will be copied tot he hard disk before installation. This should solve all potential probs. It does however double the size of the package. So if there's no reason to include the language packs I'd like to hear it to save space.

[Eck]

Hmm, ScanFrag has a text readme linked to from the Accesories\System Tools Start Menu folder. I guess that is pretty cool as it installs a lot more than just the Me ScanDisk and Defrag. It has a whole list of stuff there. I don't know if this got installed by auto-patcher or by either 98SE2ME or 98MP10. I know I left it toggled on in auto-patcher. All good stuff. Leave it there.

I just installed my Frankensteinish combo of WorksSuite 2005 and OfficeXP full. Then I updated Office to SP3 and Works to 8.5.

All that went well. I left out support for fast searching and alternative user input to avoid the TSR's those run (ctfmon and mosearch). Then I unchecked enable debugging in Internet Explorer advanced options and deleated the mdm debugger from Run Services.

As soon as I restarted after deleating that mdm registry key I got a Windows Protection Error, please restart Windows boot up error.

I restarted and it went fine, then I restarted and got the Windows Protection Error again. So I went into the Windows folder and deleated all the ff...tmp files that stupid mdm.exe had left there when it was running and deleated all the .tmp files from the Windows\Temp folder. I then restarted twice successfully.

Who knows? Maybe it was all the junk temp files that thing leaves on the system when running. Or maybe there's a problem.

System File Checker showed only a few updated files (I had run it before the Works, Office stuff so I could check this very thing), so nothing but those and a few hundred new added files there.

No hardware problems in Device Manager or problem devices in System Information. Everything looks fine.

I checked out the IOSUBSYS folder and did see that all those Adaptec plugins are there. Those and the newer Roxio ones from WMP9. Any way you could deselect the Adaptec cd burning plugin from installing with your Windows Media Legacy files but leave the newer one (a full install) of WMP 9? I doubt that's the culprit in my case since removing them totally never helped me out when I had Windows startup problems in the past. It might not matter, but you never know. WMP 9 installs the newer, problem free version of the Roxio plugin anyway. But I think it leaves the older one there, but doesn't use it. Better off not having it in the first place. Maybe you can set WMP 7.1 (the legacy files) not to install just that item. (Or, maybe not. I don't know how you do it without the GUI install.)

So maybe everything's okay after I deleated all those temp files, or maybe the good restarts are short lived.

I have to break away temporarily from playing with the system. I'm awaiting retail boxed versions of the older McAfee VirusScan 2006 (VirusScan 10), Personal Firewall 2006, and I've already got AntiSpyware2006 and the last QuickClean. I'm going to experiment with using them on 98SE in VMWare. They are still supported and the last McAfee products that support Windows 98SE. I've heard that having VBRun6SP6 installed eliminates the problem McAfee had with wininit.ini when it restarts Windows after an update, but I'll check that file to see if it does type in only what it needs, and not a bunch of gibberish that caused Windows not to start. If it's there I can deleat all the gibberish and just leave the proper lines so it will work. Just gotta say no to reboot now and check that file. Hopefully VBRunSP6 IS the fix for that.

Might be sometime next week before I get the McAfee products. So aloha until then! (Unless I chicken out and just install Avast and ZoneAlarm.)


Edit - Ooh! You posted while I was typing!

Well, we don't want the language packs to be installed. The Full install doesn't do that. If one does want any they need to check the ones they want and then it becomes a Custom install. We DO want the files copied to the source folder for potentally needy websites though. (Well, at least I do.) Yes, the Language auto-selection is normal. But not all those language packs. Like I said, they include input support that causes the keyboard language applet to run at all times in the system tray and startup with Windows.

So, no need to install them but do include them in the source folder so they can be installed when needed.

This post has been edited by Eck: 04 January 2007 - 08:17 PM

[Drugwash]

I always install all display support files in IE, but never the input support ones, as I don't need any, currently. Honestly, I'd rather have a few MB on my HDD occupied with those files, than have IE pop up messages stating that it needs this or that update to be able to display the page properly or - having such warning disabled - to see a weird page layout due to lacking proper support.
AFAIK, IE setup will recognize any path the install has been started from. So if IE6-SP1 has been installed directly from the auto-patcher CD, the language add-ons would be installed from the same path when required and will ask for the CD.
If the language files are not in the IE6-SP1 setup while installation has been performed from the CD, an eventual web update will not be carried out, because IE setup wants to save the respective files to the known path which would be the CD path.

So to wrap it up: personally I would like all language display support files to be included with the IE6-SP1 package and to have the possibility to choose between direct CD install and files-on-HDD install. Obviously, I would choose the former, for reasons I've already explained in a previous post.

And BTW, having UBCD and auto-patcher on the same CD and being able to batch the install would be the ultimate goal. I wish I would be able to help more, but currently my motivation has been blown out of the water by some recent unfortunate events.

This post has been edited by Drugwash: 05 January 2007 - 09:24 AM

[Eck]

Yeah, that would be okay. Just all the display support but none of the input items would not cause the language application to be running all the time. I've done that in the past but since I so rarely go to sites that need anything except English I've just been changing the IE setup from Typical to Full and not bothering to install languages until I need them.

Since it's easier to just have auto-patcher install Internet Explorer my preference would be the regular full install with the install files, including the languages, placed on the hard drive and setup run from there. Then if a page needs a language it'll know where to get it from. Maybe once a year I see a Japanese web page and need to get that East Asian language pack installed. Sometimes I check some Israeli web sites and need the Hebrew language pack. Still, I never had a problem waiting for a minute for Internet Explorer to install it.

But we do need it to be able to find the source files otherwise the install will fail. Either way is okay, as long as you don't set it to install the language input support.

[Drugwash]

Please also take into consideration that an (admittedly narrow) range of users may have a slow Internet connection or no connection at all. Especially for the latter, they may need additional language display support for offline browsing. I have one of my neighbors as example, which has no Internet connection but needs IE as default browser and Pan-European text display support installed, for a medical application (had Firefox as default and the application wouldn't launch at all).

[Eck]

Okay, back in business. McAfee, with the exception of the firewall (can you say fatal exception in mpfbocks.vxd 3 times fast?), works fine. Eh. So I installed ZoneAlarm, no loss (except for a few $).

Here's what Windows Update says isn't installed -

KB916281 Cumulative Security Update for Internet Explorer 6 SP1
KB891711 Security Update for Windows 98
Windows Share Level Password Update
Q323172 Security Update (Windows 98) (Flaw in Digital Certificate Enrollment Component Allows Certificate Deletion)
Security Update, May 19, 2000 (IP Fragment Reassembly)
Security Update, March 17, 2000 (DOS Device in Path Name)

Hmm, I guess they for some reason want the older IE Cumulative DLL update installed. No idea why since we have the newer one installed by auto-patcher.

The KB891711 we know about. Don't need that since the unofficial one is installed and that would remove the Microsoft registry entries and files from this older one anyway.

The other 4 I have no clue about. Do we need these? Or have thay been made obsolete by updates in the auto-patcher or been found to be troublesome in some way so purposely been left out?

Other weirdness -

As soon as I installed McAfee that My Computer icon became the newer, WinME, 2000 one. Well, at least it matches what Display Properties and Plus! Theme Manager say it is now. What the heck did McAfee software fix up there? And how do we do that without installing McAfee? Obviously something was out of whack when everything said the new icon was applied and the current one that was being used, but the old icon was really there.

[MDGx]

soporific, on Jan 3 2007, 06:34 PM, said:

regarding MDGx's latest version of NUSB24.EXE ...

That is Maximus-Decim's NUSB 2.4, I only uploaded it at my site.
____________________________

soporific, on Jan 3 2007, 10:54 PM, said:

doesn't ScanFrag install the ME versions of scandisk and defrag??

Yes, it does.

BTW:
You may want to download SCANFRAG.EXE again, I've added some more files:
http://www.mdgx.com/add.htm#TLS

* Microsoft Disk Defragmenter (DEFRAG.EXE 4.90.3000 from Windows ME), Hardware Diagnostic Tool (HWINFO.EXE 4.90.3000 from Windows ME), System Configuration (MECONFIG.EXE 4.90.3001 from Windows ME Q272719 Hotfix), Disk Scanner (SCANDSKW.EXE 4.90.3000 + SCANDISK.EXE from Windows ME), Registry Editor (REGEDIT.EXE 4.90.3000 from Windows ME = modified to work with all Windows 95/98 releases), Registry Scanner (SCANREGW.EXE 4.10.1998 + SCANREG.EXE from Windows 98 SE), SCANREG.INI Editor [SREDIT.EXE from Windows 98 Resource Kit (RK)], MSDOS.SYS Editor [BOOTEDIT.EXE 1.0.0.1 from Windows 98 Resource Kit (RK)] + System File Checker (SFC.EXE 4.10.2222 from Windows 98 SE) Tools for Windows 98/98 SP1/98 SE [733 KB]:
http://www.mdgx.com/files/SCANFRAG.EXE

HTH

[soporific]

MDGx, on Jan 10 2007, 09:44 AM, said:

That is Maximus-Decim's NUSB 2.4, I only uploaded it at my site.

That's a bummer ... oh well, the update is included but only in the manual installs folder. Thanks for hosting it!!

soporific, on Jan 3 2007, 10:54 PM, said:

doesn't ScanFrag install the ME versions of scandisk and defrag??
You may want to download SCANFRAG.EXE again, I've added some more files:

Yep, i keep a close watch of your updates thread these days and I saw that. Thanks for pointing it out again tho.

This post has been edited by soporific: 09 January 2007 - 06:58 PM