[emarkay]

Intalls it and suddenly finds that things are no longer copacetic in Personal Windowsland?

Who has confirmed how to make XP into 98? Visually and program-wise, it's already in there, but my question is in user security. Sure all the tweaks to turn off services and all that stuff exist, but has ANYONE port scanned (or even bit monitored the outgoing data) to PROVE that XP isn't a "tattletale" to any nunber of places?

I don't trust NOT knowing what's going OUT from my machine that I have not authorized!
So if one has applied all the updates, disable the services, apply the registry hacks, and all the other "Black Viper" and others' ideas, can anyone tell me that there's no "funny business" going on that XP is sending down my fat pipe?

Now don't get me wrong, I am not a molestor, a pirate, or a spammer, but one who knows the harm one can encounter when the uneducated become empowered, or when interpretations are read as facts.

What's on my PC should stay there, secured, and under my complete control.

Oh, please no BS about "unplug your router" or password and encrypt my data, and never download any thing and fumigate my mainboard, yadda yadda yadda...

Therefore, can I (or anyone) TRUST Windows XPsp2 on a broadband link??????

This post has been edited by emarkay: 24 September 2006 - 04:12 PM

[oscardog]

Therefore, can I (or anyone) TRUST Windows XPsp2 on a broadband link??????

I would doubt very much if anybody could put their hand of heart and say they could really trust XPsp2, I have serious doubts over incorporated features that can be used counter productively

Animal Farm very good book

This post has been edited by oscardog: 24 September 2006 - 07:37 PM

[wizardofwindows]

I trust XP whole heartily never had a issue with it ,prove to be stable and common sense surfing and proper virus spyware suite and your good to go my friend.

[Steven W]

I personally think that we have a while to go before 98SE is no longer viable. Heck, there is a small number of Windows 3.1 users left. I was reading a post about this not too long ago discussing hardware. One thought I had was the person who posted overlooked used hardware. There will be thrift stores, yard sales, and computer shops with old hardware around years from now.

There are people here, and elsewhere, providing "hacks" (for both harware and software) that their finding to keep us going for now. I would love to see an opensource community committed to providing software for 95/98/ME.

In a few years time maybe you'll find a linux distro that you like, Maybe Reactos will get somewhere. Maybe someone will create a win9x clone, that will run on top of a 32-bit version of freedos. I guess my point is that for now, IMHO, it's way to soon to be really worried.

This post has been edited by Steven W: 24 September 2006 - 10:04 PM

[oscardog]

"In a few years time maybe you'll find a linux distro that you like"
I have found a very nice user friendly distro, they are hopefully providing skin support shortly which will incorperate a win98 scheme, they are also quite win9x friendly rating its logical layout. It already has a similar windows installer non of the make this and that, and decent virus scanners. It dual boots comfortably with my 9x from any medium very quickly no bootloader needed etc. I shall be using a suitable virus scanner from this system which checks both systems so I am not to worried if some virus checking vendors abandon ship. I am behind a hardware firewall/nat router so zonealarm can go and tiddle.
I am in the middle of trying methods to parallel boot the os with my win9x which might come in handy.
So I for 1 am determined not to leave my monolithic os behind

This post has been edited by oscardog: 25 September 2006 - 05:14 AM

[in2media]

i myself have been using xp pro +service pack 2 for a while now with a home network consisting of 4 computers
main pc = xp pro
2nd pc= suse 10.0 +xp pro dualboot system xp hardly used on this pc
3rd +4th = 98se
out of these computers the only one i can truely say i trust is the linux box
all widows computers have registry mechanic + adaware se + norton antivirus
all are on cable broadband
to be honest i cant wait to put all on linux but the kids like the sims which i havent got working on suse yet

[prx984]

iv been seeing a lot of these posts lately and ill say what i have been thinking about them in this post.

iv been using XP/98 for ages. theyre both good os's, but out of the 2 i will always go to XP just because it handles my hardware better (i.e. giving me better performance out of my video card than 98 can provide) but i like 98 for its implicity.

i dont think 98 will die anytime soon, with the gigantic user base here at msfn that still use 98, people will be using it for i say, 4 or 5 more years.

nothing wrong with either OS imo, infact, at school when i use my XP/98 powered laptop, people often wonder why it runs so fast and handles a lot of stuff very well giving its age

[LLXX]

I use two main OSs, one highly customised 98SE and another highly customised XP (original).

On the XP system I have turned off almost all the services and secured the IE.

I tend to wander into rather questionable websites (I've given links to others which have resulted in their machines getting pwned with spyware, while nothing happens with mine - they blame it on me, but in fact it's their machine that's not secured properly) and I do download a lot of software, but it seems that both the XP and the 98SE are completely clean of any malware after several years (98SE: 6 XP: 2)

[MDGx]

Never been infected [without knowledge] with any virus/worm/trojan/zombie/rootkit/spyware/etc.
The only times I got infected was on purpose, because of testing software/environments.

Been using Win98SE [with all upgrades, extremely customized] since the day M$ started selling the upgrade on the internet [June 1999].
Dual-boot with WinXP OEM [with all upgrades, extremely customized] since the day M$ started selling it on the internet [September 2001].
Have also been using sporadically [mainly for testing purposes] WinME [with all upgrades, extremely customized].
Because of testing so much software, I sometimes use newly installed ["virgin" copies of] Win98FE, Win98SE + WinME.
Also played around at 1 time or another with a few Linux distros: Corel [don't ask], Knoppix, Ubuntu, RedHat + Novel, mostly for testing purposes.

I leave my PC on at all times [when I'm at home], and I use a cable modem connection [8 Mb/sec], which is always on.
I use only a basic firewall [Kerio 2.1.5 = freeware].
Got a basic VPN/DMZ/firewall 4-port router.
That's it. Nothing else.
Haven't used any anti-virus/anti-spyware/similar tools for ~ 6-7 years.
Whenever/if I use such tools, is only for testing purposes, or on somebody else's PC(s).

Why I don't get infected:
* Installed all OSes in directories other than default [my PC doesn't have C:\WINDOWS and never will].
* Changed all references from "C:\Program Files" to a short file name [8 chars] directory [Win98SE].
* Installed "C:\Documents And Settings" folder on different partition, under other name [short name = 8 chars] [WinXP].
* I keep important boot files [like HIMEM.SYS, IFSHLP.SYS, COMMAND.COM] in directories other than default [Win9x/ME].
* Manually + methodically "stripped" down my OSes of "dangerous" components, like Personal Web Server, FrontPage Extensions, NetBIOS, VPN, Outlook Express, Web Folders, NetMeeting, Messenger, IE Channels/IE Wallpapers, Active Desktop etc.
* I keep separate copies of important boot/system/registry/startup files, to restore them just in case, using custom batch files.
* MS IE 6.0 SP1 up to date with all security patches [official + unofficial], installed in directories other than default.
* I use MS IE only for a handful of sites that require ActiveX [which is enabled only when I access Windows Update]. For the rest of the internet I use Firefox [current release].
Sometimes I use Opera 9.01, Netscape 3.04, 4.79 + 8.1 + Maxthon [for testing only].
* I do not use M$ Java VM [JVM]. I use Sun Java instead [latest release], and customized Java permissions.
* Turned off all processes/TSRs/monitors/etc and keep startup empty [except the Kerio firewall process].
* In XP + ME I have uninstalled or turned off SR/WFP/PCHealth, Remote Desktop, Messenger, Automatic Updates, M$ Reporting tool, IE/OE Error Reporting tool etc.
* I never used and will never use any M$ software other than operating systems [and a few games they distribute but don't develop]. Example: I use OpenOffice instead of M$ Office.
* Never used backup/restore software. I do all backups/restores using custom batch files + PKZIP or 7-zip.
* I keep my registry + start/boot files "clean", by running periodically [manually, never used Scheduling Agent] custom REG, INF + BAT files.
* I always keep current copies of my main OSes on different physical hard disks and CD-Rs/DVD-Rs.
Always use at least 4 hard disks with different partitions for each OS.
And if I notice any weird behaviour, I reboot right away and replace the current OS copy with a good working one, from my most recent backups.
* I use a huge HOSTS file with over 120,000 banned servers, with all my OSes:
http://www.mdgx.com/hosts.htm
* I spend a lot of time on the internet researching, and sometimes I do visit dubious/unsafe web sites [for testing], but never got infected.
* I use batch files to periodically delete all traces of visited sites, cookies, history, temp files, browser cache, WMP cache + DRM etc.
* Disabled all WMP reporting/update features + unique ID string.
* I never used Outlook or any other offline mail client for email. I handle all my email through the web browser.
* I use email providers/hosts who use quality email filters for spam, adware + spyware [white/gray/black listing etc].
* Rarely, whenever I need to surf anonymously, I use a free proxy server.
* I customized Firefox javascript to ban dangerous interface scripts.
* I never use easy to break/same passwords.
* I don't do my banking, credit card stuff, taxes, accounting etc on the internet. I rarely buy stuff from the internet, only from a handful of web sites I trust, and always use a "protected" credit card [money back guaranteed if any unauthorized transations occur].
* I have removed all my personal info and disabled all spamming options from all my phone, internet, credit card and bank account providers [opt-out].
* Added my phone numbers to the national do-not-call directory [available only in USA].
* I subscribe to very few magazines/journals, I do no use store cards, money-saving promos etc.

Long live 98SE.

Best wishes.

[E-66]

Man, that sounds like a lot of work.... I just cross my fingers.

Kidding of course. If you've never been to MDGx's website before you owe it to yourself to spend a few months there poking around. There's a massive amount of great info there.

[smok3yjoint]

Its one hell of a collection mgdx has got its like a dos graveyard i even heard hes got a old 216 thats bigger than a buick lol.but seriously its massive and if u ask me is 98 viable i say yes thanks to axel speed windows.

[emarkay]

MDGx,

Understand, and MUCH apprreciate your site. Excellent!

However, even you can't write drivers for peripherals or interfaces to DMA and other main board procedures that require interface to the OS.

MANY MANY (even my AntiMalware program from Trend Micro) are moving away from Win98SE support. A great and stable OS that is safe, is no use if you can't use it.

Now I know that you can transplant a Hemi into a Model T, but you won't be able to use Windows 98SE for much longer if your printer dies or you want to get a better graphisc card!!!

And still - HOW SAFE IS XP? Not from INCOMMING THREATS but from OUTGOING THREATS?
What "backdoors" and other "designed in" areas of access are there to MS and other "clued in" third parties???

THAT IS MY QUESTION!

It's inevitable that someday Win98 will be unservicable without a great investment in looking for "legacy hardware". That is the fact. But how secure are the alterantive MS OS's?

Oh BTW, I am learning Linux now!!!

[MDGx]

To answer your questions [long read ahead]...

No, I can't write drivers/software, I am not a programmer, and I don't plan to learn programming anytime soon.
The only "code" I know is DOS batch, Windows registry, INF/SED, HTML/CSS + JavaScript.

But not even XP is too secure, even with all current patches, and as M$ admitted recently, they had to disable some of the administrative rights/features and they keep telling users to log in under less privileged accounts in order to be "more secure" [do you think that's an improvement? no, it's not, it's actually a step back, and if you ask me it's a joke].
Basically they're admitting there is not much else they can do to secure their flagship OS.
And all this because phishers, black-hat hackers, crackers, script-kiddies, and money-making virus spreading businesses are flourishing by targetting the zillions of unaware XP users who have no clue about how computers work.
The good news for Win98 SE/ME users is that nobody today bothers spending time creating spyware/viruses/rootkits for 9x based OSes anymore, because they are only a tiny fraction [15-25 %, if that] of all M$ based OSes on the planet.
See Wikipedia on rootkits:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rootkit
See also the rootkit thread at MSFN:
http://www.msfn.org/...showtopic=83139

But the bad news for Win98 SE/ME users is the reality that M$ dropped official support for 98 SE + ME OSes.
That move alone forced lots of people and businesses to move on to a newer [supported] OS, like 2000, XP or even 2003, depending on their needs +/- budget.
And with the media over-hype about the upcoming release of Vista, which M$ wants everybody to believe will be the best thing next to sliced bread, 9x OSes are slowly but surely fading away fast.
Places like this forum, where a handful of "faithful" geeks like us hang around, are the last "bastions" of survival for 98 SE + ME.
And of course, because this is an extremely small community with very limited resources, we can't keep up with all latest security threats [patches], new hardware [drivers], etc.
These are the same reasons why Linux was not as popular as many of us wanted it to be until recently, when big businesses stepped in [IBM, Sun etc] with huge resources, to be able to keep head-to-head with M$, and develop tip-top industrial standards for the Linux world. That's why within the last 2-3 years Linux started such a big boost in ease of use, stability and popularity.
And yes, I believe Linux [or any other viable open source solution] will eventually take over the computing world as main OS. That's because we, humans, need to move on to better things, than worry too much about our computers' security [or lack of], and won't care to spend big bucks on "shiny" Vista, just because M$ says so. I'd say the future of computing belongs to open source, not to the "800 pound gorillas" like RIAA, MPAA, M$, Intel ["wintel"] and a few others, who won't have their way in the long run.

Another huge contribution to the 9x OSes dismay, is also the fact that M$ has not released the source code for 98 SE nor ME, and they probably never will. If we would have access to souce code, our jobs of writing drivers, fixing security bugs, improving standards, keeping up with hardware development etc... would be much easier.

Therefore, yes, the time for 98 SE/ME to be replaced with something else is near.
And I bet most of these users [some just like us], will never use XP or Vista, they will probably "jump the wagon" to Linux or even MacOS X [you never know, especially now that Apple shows everybody how to install + run XP on Intel based Macs ]. And please do not forget, MacOS X *is* based on UNIX/Linux code.

So you're perfectly right, 98SE/ME can't last much longer, but that's where we the few [here at MSFN, mostly], come in, to make sure these OSEs will last as long as possible, and to ensure their users will have the best possible experience, as long as they plan on using them.
... Because we're geeks, and we live to help others.

Long live 98 SE

This post has been edited by MDGx: 29 September 2006 - 03:23 AM

[Dr. Mac]

So you're perfectly right, 98SE/ME can't last much longer, but that's where we the few [here at MSFN, mostly], come in, to make sure these OSEs will last as long as possible, and to ensure their users will have the best possible experience, as long as they plan on using them.


LONG LIVE WIN 98se ... AND MDGx ... and all others with this positive mind-set!


Yup! Long live our beloved 98se.

Dr. Mac

[LLXX]

Quote

Another huge contribution to the 9x OSes dismay, is also the fact that M$ has not released the source code for 98 SE nor ME, and they probably never will. If we would have access to souce code, our jobs of writing drivers, fixing security bugs, improving standards, keeping up with hardware development etc... would be much easier

Well, you can still 'make' your own source, if you know what I mean

Had to do exactly that for Copy2Gb and Enable48BitLBA.

[Eck]

Gosh, reading stuff like that makes me want to wipe out my XP and Vista partitions and let 98SE reign over my computer! I haven't done that in a long time.

98SE appears to run great on this (the Epox) board. A few quirks with IRQ sharing reporting problems but but all the hardware working anyway. Dare I take the plunge?

Oh! What would I do with 4700GB DVD iso's? Split 'em up when making them? Hmmm. I wonder if IMGTOOL Classic would do that? I've been taking the DVDShrink files and making the iso with IMGTOOL Classic, then burning with IMGBURN.

DeepBurner Pro claims to be able to handle DVD Video so I suppose I could do what I used to do with Nero and try burning the DVDShrink created Video_ts folder directly. Since it was a new addition to DeepBurner Pro I haven't trusted it yet, preferring to make the ISO myself. Works great with Vista and NTFS, but I'm wondering if splitting the ISO in 2 parts would effect the resulting DVD?

Anyone here who can tell me whether this works okay?

I'd also love for someone to get the new QuickTime formats to work on 98SE. It looks like Apple isn't going to bother doing it. It probably wouldn't be hard for them to do it, with all their resources. But then Apple even abandone's its own older software (and hardware) all the time.

Hundred's of dollars for Vista Ultimate is really looking like something I don't want to do. I've been running the beta's and they sure look pretty. However, geez, you know when running software it all seems the same on any version of the operating system's. And nearly everything is still zippier and more compatible on good old 98SE. My browser's browse, Word writes document's, email gets sent and recieved, games play, video's and music sound and look alike, etc.

Hmmm, sounds like a racket to me! I can even install WindowBlinds and Object Bar and, Magic! Looks like XP, Vista, whatever I want! VirusScanner, Firewall, Spy Checker's, and security updates, along with intelligent browsing, and, Magic! Secure like XP, Vista!

Be the envy of the neighborhood! Be the only one running 98! Heh, heh. Sounds good, eh?

[Fredledingue]

About DVD back ups I'v been asking myself the same question today (funny he?) when poundering the purchase of a DVD writer.

maybe we could ask here:
http://www.doom9.org...tml?/guides.htm

A solution could looking for old or simple softwares designed when W98 was still not totaly in oblivion.

For quicktime, untill someone release an unofficial codex, it might be possible to convert it to avi eventhought you cannot play it.
I'm not sure but it's worth a try.
I'v got several video files that wouldn't play on my w98 PC but converted succesfuly with some free addware video convertor.
Thought I don't remember if it was new quicl time videos or something else.

Also check if Fast Stone Player don't play them...

HTH

[Atmosphere XG]

If you are looking for Video convertors that will work in Windows 98, you should
checkout http://www.imtoo.com/ A lot of convertors there, and, many do work on Windows 98.

This post has been edited by Atmosphere XG: 29 September 2006 - 04:33 PM

[Eck]

Hey, I just opened IMGTOOL Classic just to check out the options. One of the one's available is to split image into 1GB chunks (recommended for FAT32 partitions).

Now I'm wondering whether IMGBURN will take those and burn them into one iso on a DVD. I suppose it will as otherwise that wouldn't be in the IMGTOOL options to create them that way. I'll have to try this out on 98SE and see what happens.

Kind of chickening out though. I just finished setting up the 3 operating systems here. I'll probably just want to use the computer as is for a bit. I've got 60GB for 98SE, about 170GB for XP, and a seperate 120GB HD for Vista.

I just think about what I've got here, then consider all the work involved after wiping everything out. Err, I think I'll rest from computer building for a bit!

Still, 98SE ROCKS! (Just don't want to work too hard at the moment.)

I've been doing some DVD's in Vista. Maybe I'll just go into 98SE and try it out there. Let's see if it survives the long high-quality encoding in DVDShrink without freezing. Vista did it. My older Asus A7V880 had a problem with that while on XP. Maybe it's just the motherboard. This Epox seems more stable using the same processor type and memory. We're talking about an hour and a half of 100% processor usage. Wish I could put an air conditioner in the pc!

For the QuickTime stuff I'm just talking about going to a website and playing the newer video's automatically. Nowaday's we need the QuickTime 7.1 codecs (whether in the commercial player or QuickTime Alternative) to play them. Most just play the audio only with QuickTime 6.5.2 installed.

I'm not a big QuickTime video player, but it's just one of the annoyances of stuff that won't work on 9x anymore.

This post has been edited by Eck: 29 September 2006 - 04:47 PM

[PROBLEMCHYLD]

MDGx, on Sep 26 2006, 09:42 AM, said:

* I use batch files to periodically delete all traces of visited sites, cookies, history, temp files, browser cache, WMP cache + DRM etc.

Care to share a script like that with the forum?
Thanks.