[Petr]

Hello,

I think it's time to do some advance in Service Packs field, especailly with SESP. Gape is not replying several months to PMs and e-mails so we should make something ourselves.

Besides of other things that we can discuss later, we should choose some good installer. IEXPRESS + INFEX combination is not very flexible and does no provide all necessary features.

Some of the features I'd like to see are:
- full support for Win95/98/Me
- test of OS version and OS language
- complete backup of all replaced files, registry keys and INI entries
- full restore of the previous state after uninstall
- support for all languages in which Win95/98/Me exist
- ability of conditional installation depending on
-- OS version
-- OS language
-- certain file versions
-- certain registry entries
- good compressing ratio
- easy to learn and use
- free for any use
- maybe also the possibility to create patches, something like MSPs for Windows Installer.

I see two candidates:
NSIS
Inno Setup
but I have not tested them. Maybe somebody know anything better?

Maybe also good patching program would be nice, maybe useing mspatcha.dll, maybe something different, but it should save the space and troubles with distribution of some files.

Any ideas?

Petr

Edit: Additional tools suggested to me:
WiX - free
Indigo Rose Software Deployment Suite - rather expensive
InstallShield 12 Express - €399.00
VISE $695 + $200 per language file

Advanced Installer - free limited version, $249 professional
Setup2GO - free or $ 29.00
InstallConstruct - $295.00

This post has been edited by Petr: 09 November 2006 - 09:27 AM

[PROBLEMCHYLD]

Petr

If when you do get this thing up and running could you please
not included third party apps like metapad etc...
only because people will eventually install the apps they want.
Some people might not even use such tools.
I think this pack should be official/unofficial updates only
and tweaks for speed/endurance etc....

NOTHING ELSE
But this is just my opinion

This post has been edited by PROBLEMCHYLD: 09 November 2006 - 12:04 PM

[Petr]

PROBLEMCHYLD, on Nov 9 2006, 07:03 PM, said:

If when you do get this thing up and running could you please
not included third party apps like metapad etc...
only because people will eventually install the apps they want.
Some people might not even use such tools.
I think this pack should be official/unofficial updates only
and tweaks for speed/endurance etc....

NOTHING ELSE
But this is just my opinion

Exactly my opinion, I think that skins/themes should not be part of the uSP too.

uSP should contain bug fixes and remove some restrictions, like 137GB disks or 2GB files.

With Metapad - there may be two points of view. One is that it is just a tool that removes another limitation ~ 40 kB maximum size of edited file, the second is that it is just 3rd party application that should not be here.

Petr

This post has been edited by Petr: 09 November 2006 - 12:11 PM

[PROBLEMCHYLD]

I thought it was fixed with a unofficial update
http://www.mdgx.com/files/NPUPDW98.EXE

This post has been edited by PROBLEMCHYLD: 09 November 2006 - 12:14 PM

[Acheron]

I have created a few installers myself using Inno Setup.

The installer uses an easy scripting method. Not that flexible, but you can create custom pages and use Pascal Scripting to do stuff under the hood
However for most stuff you don't have to use any code at all. Inno Setup has been developed for many years now and has a free license. So you can actually alter the source code if necessary.
Installation Speed is very fast.
About the backing up of replaced files. This is possible, but you have to use some scripting. You can find information on the inno news server, inno documentation, or somewhere else online.

Nero 7 Lite is my masterwork created with Inno Setup available for public.

- full support for Win95/98/Me CHECK
- test of OS version and OS language CHECK
- complete backup of all replaced files, registry keys and INI entries Possible through scripting
- full restore of the previous state after uninstall Possible through scripting
- support for all languages in which Win95/98/Me exist CHECK
- ability of conditional installation depending on CHECK
-- OS version CHECK
-- OS language CHECK
-- certain file versions Possible through scripting
-- certain registry entries Possible through scripting
- good compressing ratio CHECK
- easy to learn and use CHECK
- free for any use CHECK
- maybe also the possibility to create patches, something like MSPs for Windows Installer. CHECK

Petr if you up to the task of creating a new Service Pack for Windows 98 at least I'm available for help on the Inno Setup part

P.S. I have no experience with NullSoft Installer Script. So this post is not very objective.

This post has been edited by hp38guser: 09 November 2006 - 02:10 PM

[LLXX]

Microsoft Installer

Why not... it's what M$ uses and besides, you're packaging M$ files...

[Petr]

LLXX, on Nov 11 2006, 12:24 PM, said:

Microsoft Installer

Why not... it's what M$ uses and besides, you're packaging M$ files...

Do you mean WiX?

MS Installer has also MSP format for distributing patches only.

I have not looked at at all yet.

Petr

[Acheron]

Petr, on Nov 12 2006, 06:12 PM, said:

LLXX, on Nov 11 2006, 12:24 PM, said:

Microsoft Installer

Why not... it's what M$ uses and besides, you're packaging M$ files...

Do you mean WiX?

MS Installer has also MSP format for distributing patches only.

I have not looked at at all yet.

Petr

I don't think WiX is the way to go now. There's no good Visual Editor for it, so your basically working with XML files. Also there's lack of documentation so you have to learn a lot about the internals of MSI first.
InnoSetup is I think the best tool, it has many addons, like ISTool and ISForm Designer and it does work on Windows 98!

If you really want to go the MSI way you can look at some commercial tools. Some do offer also a freeware version with limited functionality like AdvancedInstaller. However this tool does not work on Windows 98 and is not free.

[Petr]

hp38guser, on Nov 9 2006, 09:06 PM, said:

Petr if you up to the task of creating a new Service Pack for Windows 98 at least I'm available for help on the Inno Setup part

Thank you very much for the offer hp38guser, we will see if there will be more people wanting to work on the SP. It does not look so so far.

Regards,

Petr

[LLXX]

http://www.qwerty-msi.com/

Whatever happened to that "real slipstreaming" project?

[MDGx]

I also have some experience with InnoSetup, and am willing to help with future SP.
I've used InnoSetup to create W95-11D.EXE + 98SE2ME.EXE.

I have no experience with NSIS.

Just like hp38guser said, you can do a lot of things with InnoSetup, especially if you use add-ons, all of which are free(ware).
Besides, ISS scripts are easy to learn.
If any1 cares to see an example of ISS script, download the one I use for 98SE2ME:
http://www.mdgx.com/9s2m/INNOFILE.ZIP

InnoSetup links found here:
http://www.mdgx.com/bin.htm#SPE

* Inno Setup v5.1.8 32-bit is the BEST software Installer for Windows
9x/NT4/2000/ME/XP/2003: creates + compiles redistributable installation
packages, supports: single EXE creation, disk spanning, setup wizard
interface, customizable setup types, complete uninstall capabilities,
integrated LZMA/ZIP file compression which allows small foot print, file
version comparison, in use file replacement, shared file counting, DLL/OCX
registration, fonts installation, REG/INI entry creation, shortcut creation,
silent install/uninstall etc, highly customizable (freeware):
http://www.jrsoftware.org/isinfo.php
Direct download [1.32 MB]:
http://www.jrsoftwar...load.php/is.exe
Inno Setup QuickStart Pack [1.42 MB]:
http://files.jrsoftw...spack-5.1.8.exe
3rd party Inno Setup add-ons [free(ware)]:
http://www.jrsoftwar.../is3rdparty.php
Inno Unpacker [free GPL]:
http://innounp.sourceforge.net/

HTH

[Hu$tle]

How is the new Win98SE SP3 coming along, we really realy need it Petr.

[erpdude8]

LLXX, on Nov 12 2006, 08:40 PM, said:

http://www.qwerty-msi.com/

Whatever happened to that "real slipstreaming" project?

poor choice LLXX. Qwerty.Msi is for NT-based versions of Windows only, excluding 9xME OSes. read the System Requirements section for Qwerty.Msi. also it requires .NET Framework 1.1 or higher installed.

[LLXX]

erpdude8, on Nov 22 2006, 04:13 PM, said:

LLXX, on Nov 12 2006, 08:40 PM, said:

http://www.qwerty-msi.com/

Whatever happened to that "real slipstreaming" project?

poor choice LLXX. Qwerty.Msi is for NT-based versions of Windows only, excluding 9xME OSes. read the System Requirements section for Qwerty.Msi. also it requires .NET Framework 1.1 or higher installed.

Works on Win98se without the kernel update... also using a very stripped down .NET framework here (I hate .NET but this is the best free .msi manipulator so far, so until I can find something better...)

[tErmY]

LLXX, on Nov 22 2006, 10:07 PM, said:

erpdude8, on Nov 22 2006, 04:13 PM, said:

LLXX, on Nov 12 2006, 08:40 PM, said:

http://www.qwerty-msi.com/

Whatever happened to that "real slipstreaming" project?

poor choice LLXX. Qwerty.Msi is for NT-based versions of Windows only, excluding 9xME OSes. read the System Requirements section for Qwerty.Msi. also it requires .NET Framework 1.1 or higher installed.

Works on Win98se without the kernel update... also using a very stripped down .NET framework here (I hate .NET but this is the best free .msi manipulator so far, so until I can find something better...)

What did you do to strip it down?

[MDGx]

I like Orca as MSI editor, and it's free from M$.
This is how to get it and install it on 9x OSes:
http://www.msfn.org/board/?s=&showtopi...st&p=568281
And Orca doesn't need .NET installed.

To extract files from MSI/MSP installers, I like the msix.exe command line tool [free]:
http://blogs.msdn.co.../07/571138.aspx
File:
http://hstewart.memb...nloads/msix.zip

IMHO:
To build an installer, we don't need the MSI system, it's too complicated and cumbersome, requires a lengthy learning curve [not worth the time], and the worst is that it clutters the HD with tons of useless files + folders, and also writes a huge amount of registry values/keys [unnecessary bloat]. Why? Don't ask me, ask InstallShield, who created it.
Please note that M$ didn't create the MSI installer, they only licensed it from InstallShield.
I'm actually surprised they didn't buy them out instead.

HTH

[erpdude8]

MDGx, on Nov 23 2006, 03:52 AM, said:

I like Orca as MSI editor, and it's free from M$.
This is how to get it and install it on 9x OSes:
http://www.msfn.org/board/?s=&showtopi...st&p=568281
And Orca doesn't need .NET installed.

nice. does ORCA 2.0 work with W9X/ME/NT4 OSes? I know ORCA version 3.1 requires Win2000/XP/2003/Vista.

[krick]

Advanced Installer
http://www.advancedinstaller.com/

[LLXX]

tErmY, on Nov 23 2006, 01:03 AM, said:

What did you do to strip it down?

Judicious use of the Delete key.