[kof94]

I think I've found something really useful.

I've mentioned in previous posts about how to boot isolinux through CDShell using it's inbuilt functioanlity. The only draw back with this is you have to script each command you require individually into your CDShell menu.

Well, I've found a new way.

I've been struggling to get Gparted to boot this way, all I seam to get is a kernal sync error (what ever that is). So, I decided to boot the entire iso image using diskemu instead to see what would happen.

The result of this is, I now have a fully functioning isolinux boot menu as if you were running it from the original disc.

The only problem is, it can't find the source files.

Obviously gparted looks for a cd-rom containing the program itself, in this case a file called gparted. So, I copied this file to the root of my disc and deleted it from the .iso. Now all the iso contains is the isolinux folder and the source file is on the disc. Now the whole thing boots.

So, in conclusion.

If you wish to boot isolinux through CDShell, copy the source files from the original .iso to the same locations on your disc. Then delete them from the .iso leaving just the isolinux folder remaining (this will also reduce the size of the imge). Now simply boot the .iso image using diskemu.

I know this seams very definitive and I'm sure there will be situations where this wont work (here you can see me covering my a**) but whilst I've been writing this I've also tried this on Acronis True Image, guess what, it works.

Tomorrow I will be testing this on Ubuntu and Knoppix (and anything else I can get my hands on) so I'll keep you posted.

-kof94

[jetman]

KOF94: Just a quikie about our running discussion. As I pointed out on the Knoppix thread, there are cheatcodes in the latest-greatest KNOPPIX (5.11) that permit the compressed-image file to be renamed and relocated. They're explicitly documented, so I'll leave that to you.

In working out issues w/ my fav Linux distro (Slax), I've discovered what's almost certainly the answer to similar issues w/ other distros, like KUBUNTU, where there are no known suitable cheatcodes. It's the initial ramdisk image. This isn't a newbie effort and don't know when I can do it and pass it along to you, but here goes in case you have the goods for dealing w/ a Linux shell-script.

You need to boot the desired distro, along w/ the initrd in compressed form (the .gz file.) Next, assuming the file is called initrd.gz, you'll need to do something like:

mount /mnt/hda1
mkdir /mnt/hda1/rd
cp initrd.gz /mnt/hda1
cd /mnt/hda1
gzip initrd.gz
mount -t ext2 -vo loop /mnt/hda1/initrd /mnt/hda1/rd

Next, edit the init shell-script, which is prob called linuxrc, in /mnt/hda1/rd, as in:

vi /mnt/hda1/rd/linuxrc

What needs to happen is to add new cheatocdes, to relocate/rename the compressed-image. Once you've made your changes:

umount /mnt/hda1/rd
gzip -9 initrd

Reburn your CD w/ the updated initrd.gz and try your new cheatcodes.

If any of this seems comfusing, I'm sorry, but that is what needs to be done. Given that distros don't change very often and components like the ramdisk sometimes don't change at all (from rev-to-rev), this approach would work well.

Right now, I need to focus on paying work. Maybe, in the coming week, I can spare some time, bang it out and share. TTYL....

[kof94]

To be honest I've pretty much given up on re-mastering and/or modding Linux for my disc.

At present my disc structure is quite clean, especially since I found that you only actually need four folders for Ubuntu at the root of the disc.

I've also put my new booting process into practice (still using CDShell) and that's working a charm. I now have the full, original isolinux boot menu system for any OS or util that requires it. This has also enabled me to use all cheat codes and options that would normally be available.

I can't see me using two OS's of the same type on my disc as I don't really require it i.e. I'm not considering Ubuntu and Kubuntu on the same disc!

I'm still interested in this tread though because there isn't really another thread in this forum that just focuses on Linux. We should try to keep it going!

Laters.

[jetman]

kof94, on Jan 30 2007, 04:41 PM, said:

To be honest I've pretty much given up on re-mastering and/or modding Linux for my disc.

At present my disc structure is quite clean, especially since I found that you only actually need four folders for Ubuntu at the root of the disc.

I've also put my new booting process into practice (still using CDShell) and that's working a charm. I now have the full, original isolinux boot menu system for any OS or util that requires it. This has also enabled me to use all cheat codes and options that would normally be available.

I can't see me using two OS's of the same type on my disc as I don't really require it i.e. I'm not considering Ubuntu and Kubuntu on the same disc!

I'm still interested in this tread though because there isn't really another thread in this forum that just focuses on Linux. We should try to keep it going!

Laters.

It isn't too much work and I want to at least look at the files to see what's req'd. Little jobs like this are the best way to one's feet wet in a new lang, like BASH. Make a relatively simple change and implement it. Will keep you apprised in this space. TTYL....Jet

[kof94]

@Jetman

Ok, I want to convert my whole menu/boot system to isolinux/syslinux instead of CDShell. And I'm serious this time.

I've been looking at the two included menu systems but I need help to get a system the same/similar as the Ubuntu boot menu.

Apart from the look and feel, I like the fact you can drop to a prompt that allows you to modify the boot command of the menu entry you have selected!

I have some questions though:

1. This type of menu seams to use something called gfxboot, How does this work?

2. How would I go about creating submenus?

3. How exactly do I create a usable background image?

4. I've obviously used cdimage in the past but know I'll need to convert to mkisofs instead. What are the best param's for Windows and Linux on the same disc and can you optimise the image (write duplicate files once) with it?

If you have any better suggestions about making a funky menu system then go ahead, I'm now a n00b again !

I do have more questions specific to booting certain things but getting a usable menu system up and running is first on my list.

Thanks

-kof94

[jetman]

kof94, on Feb 5 2007, 02:03 PM, said:

@Jetman

Ok, I want to convert my whole menu/boot system to isolinux/syslinux instead of CDShell. And I'm serious this time.

I've been looking at the two included menu systems but I need help to get a system the same/similar as the Ubuntu boot menu.

Apart from the look and feel, I like the fact you can drop to a prompt that allows you to modify the boot command of the menu entry you have selected!

I have some questions though:

1. This type of menu seams to use something called gfxboot, How does this work?

2. How would I go about creating submenus?

3. How exactly do I create a usable background image?

4. I've obviously used cdimage in the past but know I'll need to convert to mkisofs instead. What are the best param's for Windows and Linux on the same disc and can you optimise the image (write duplicate files once) with it?

If you have any better suggestions about making a funky menu system then go ahead, I'm now a n00b again !

I do have more questions specific to booting certain things but getting a usable menu system up and running is first on my list.

Thanks

-kof94

KOF: I'm glad you've finally seen the light. I was just about to rat you out to the Thought Police for your sojourn w/ CDSHELL. Now that appears unnec.

Seriously, I just discovered that the SYSLINUX pkg has an important upgrade (3.35). Get it pronto, if you haven't already done so. In the root of the .ZIP file is README.MENU. That addresses items #1+#2+#3. The simple menu config is detailed here and (as I understand it) permits the use of simple 640x480 JPGs or PNGs as a backdrop. BTW, I started my own work on this subsystem last nite. I would also remind you of this, which is the menu I will mod for my tests.

WRT CDIMAGE vs MKISOFS, you mite not need to change. I haven't used CDIMAGE, but as I've heard, it has the essential boot-info-table cmd-line opt, Ie. essential for using ISOLINUX as the CD's boot loader.

That's it for now. I need to go back to the grind, as it's late morning over here in NYC. Check your mail tomorrow AM (your time.) Should have something to rept by then....Jet

[kof94]

Quote

KOF: I'm glad you've finally seen the light. I was just about to rat you out to the Thought Police for your sojourn w/ CDSHELL. Now that appears unnec. biggrin.gif

Well, it seams that the author has ceased dev on CDShell for the foreseeable future so as far as I'm concerned isolinux is the next logical step! I'm glad this makes you so happy .

Quote

I started my own work on this subsystem last nite. I would also remind you of this, which is the menu I will mod for my tests.

I'm actually one step ahead on you with menu.c32 (yes, I've learnt to read ) but I can't for the life of me get vesamenu.c32 to work with an image.

The reason I asked about mkisofs is partly because of this and because some of the images I've made wont boot using CDImage!

I might just get a working menu.c32 system working so I can get everything else rolling but essentially I'd really like to get a menu system like Ubuntu's. I love the whole feel of it and by the looks of it the actual menu system uses the same labeling as menu.c32. I just need to know what files you need for the whole module to work.

I'm also quite handy when it comes to graphics, I just need to get back in to it.

On another topic:

I asked about using diskemu instead of memdisk for emulating disc images a while ago. My reasoning behind this was (and still is), diskemu reads the contents of the image from the disc instead of loading it in memory which is beneficial for some apps e.g. memory diagnostics.

Is there a similar method to use with isolinux?

Diskemu can also read the contents of iso images but I think this extra functionality was added my the author of CDShell and not the author of diskemu.

I think this thread is about to monopolise this board for a while to come.

Laters.

This post has been edited by kof94: 07 February 2007 - 04:27 PM

[jetman]

kof94, on Feb 7 2007, 05:24 PM, said:

The reason I asked about mkisofs is partly because of this and because some of the images I've made wont boot using CDImage!

I might just get a working menu.c32 system working so I can get everything else rolling but essentially I'd really like to get a menu system like Ubuntu's. I love the whole feel of it and by the looks of it the actual menu system uses the same labeling as menu.c32. I just need to know what files you need for the whole module to work.

Why don't you post the top ten or twenty lines of your ISOLINUX.CFG ? It worked for me straight-away ! I'VE NEARLY REACHED THE END OF MY BOOT MENU JOURNEY ! I took my old .CFG file (as I mentioned yesterday) and added the new stuf. Didn't muck w/ changing colors, just did the minimum w/ a random PNG from my collection. Next, I trying to make one of the samples (CAT.C32) display help text. It boggles the mind, but SYSLINUX's author took that feature out of VESAMENU. Won't be pretty, but as long as it displays ASCII....

Quote

On another topic:

I asked about using diskemu instead of memdisk for emulating disc images a while ago. My reasoning behind this was (and still is), diskemu reads the contents of the image from the disc instead of loading it in memory which is beneficial for some apps e.g. memory diagnostics.

Is there a similar method to use with isolinux?

I don't grok this. I suspect MEMDISK and DISKEMU are the same thing. It (ie. MEMDISK) is just a floppy emulator, so that sounds like most of your desc of DISKEMU. I've heard of DISKEMU, bef your mention, just never had occasion to try it. Anyway, MEMDISK is what comes w/ the SYSLINUX pkg. But, there's no reason to think that DISKEMU wouldn't work as a replacement. Give it a whack....Jet

[kof94]

I haven't had time to mess with this today. Since I got home from work it's been one thing after another!

With vesamenu I've probably just put something out of place and not seen it instantly, I'll re-do it again tomorrow and see what happens.

As far as Diskemu goes, your right, I'm not gonna know til I try it. So I will.

What's CAT.C32 all about? (I take it back your way a head of me)

-kof

Edit:

I now have a background image using vesamenu.

Converted my .jpg to a .png and changed the name of it from wallpaper.png (9:3 !!! ) to back.png.

I didn't really need to convert the image but it was the first thing I did before realising my misstake.

And the moral of this story is, 'don't try to learn something new when your far too tired to think'.

-kof

This post has been edited by kof94: 08 February 2007 - 06:35 PM

[jetman]

kof94, on Feb 8 2007, 07:11 PM, said:

What's CAT.C32 all about? (I take it back your way a head of me)

I now have a background image using vesamenu.

Converted my .jpg to a .png and changed the name of it from wallpaper.png (9:3 !!! ) to back.png.

I didn't really need to convert the image but it was the first thing I did before realising my misstake.

And the moral of this story is, 'don't try to learn something new when your far too tired to think'.

-kof

Congrats ! I bet it'll go pretty quik, once you're powered back up. Lack of sleep will do it to you EVERY TIME. It's bitten me in the a** for the past few days w/ my paying work.

CAT32.C32 is something I discovered while GOOGLEing for info about displaying help text using VESAMENU. It's crude, but it does display a simple text file w/o writing code and I have it tied to a menu pick. You can find it in the samples sub-dir of the SYSLINUX pkg. While browsing (the SYSLINUX daily mail digest), I also found out that SYSLINUX's author has a new beta release. No details til cracking the ZIP, but he wants folks on the list to test it, so he can release it by the weekend.

In addition to everything else, I'm trying to recompile the kernel for Slax. The compile completed successfully, then crapped out when I tried to boot it. Must've missed something else. Time to reboot again. C'ya tomorrow....Jet

[jetman]

It's done at last, except for a couple of quirks, which for the moment are completely harmless. The new menu works, the new Slax kernel works (altho apparently not at first, then I woke up fresh !), and CAT.C32 can in fact be used for simple help text files directly from the menu !

Next, I hope to look into that other thing I mentioned last week, that is, opening up the compressed ramdisk for Kubuntu. I suspect that's where one can hack a quik change, so that Kubuntu's boot files/dirs can be relocated.

Later....Jet

[kof94]

Just though I'd post an update. Why didn't I use isolinux from the start?!

This looks sick (see attached) well compared to the basic CDShell menu I used to have anyway.

Not sure if I'll actually use this, I just wanted I idea of what I can to with the menu's.

Now on to submenus....


*attachment deleted*

This post has been edited by kof94: 16 February 2007 - 05:35 PM

[jetman]

kof94, on Feb 10 2007, 09:57 AM, said:

Just though I'd post an update. Why didn't I use isolinux from the start?!

This looks sick (see attached) well compared to the basic CDShell menu I used to have anyway.

Not sure if I'll actually use this, I just wanted I idea of what I can to with the menu's.

Now on to submenus....

Good work. I can't imagine why you wouldn't continue. Seriously....

I tried the BCDW/CDSHELL route initially, over a year ago. Part of the prob was that was trying to get something like this (a slick graphical menu) going very quickly. At that time, there weren't as many people involved w/ samples to offer, etc, so forth. Chief among my failures was that I didn't know about the boot-info-table deal, plus NERO was my main burning tool (which knows diddly about a boot-info-table !) Add to that, CDSHELL is a procedural/batch lang and I really didn't want to read several pages just to display a simple menu, so CDSHELL was doomed from the start.

Then, starting in Sept, I banged my head against a wall for weeks, trying to coerce GRUB into booting BARTPE from CD ! That was when I revisited ISOLINUX. Bef long, I had a workable splash and a serviceable menu system for my projects. At last, I had consistent and reproducible success. Success is wonderful thing !

Part of me is tempted to revisit GRUB, bec it is a powerful tool, superior to SYSLINUX/ISOLINUX. However, that's unlikely, as I have many other things I want to do that are more likely to be successful....Jet

PS: Did you do the graphic all by yourself ? Regardless, it's a good job. Some people smoke crack, others shoot heroin, I'm a wallpaper fiend ! So, this is based on stuf from my collection....

This post has been edited by jetman: 11 February 2007 - 05:16 PM

[inspectmaster]

Linux needs to simplify the installation process for all platforms.

http://www.inspectmaster.com

[jetman]

inspectmaster, on Feb 11 2007, 07:19 PM, said:

Linux needs to simplify the installation process for all platforms.

http://www.inspectmaster.com

That comment isn't really germane to this discussion. I beleive your comment is directed at the fact that ther isn't an InstallShield-type builder for Linux. That seems like an accurate observation, but not approp here....Jet

[kof94]

Personally I used CDShell cos it was the loader of choice from Flyakite's guide!

I'm quite impressed about how easy it is to create an interesting menu using isolinux and I'm determined to make it work for me in the way I want it to.

I haven't really ran into any problems except for memdisk which does cause problems. I'm still trying to look for an alt for booting floppies when memdisk falls over.

As I said before my main reason for moving to isolinux is because CDShell is no longer an active project. If this was not the case I would probably still be using it just because of the selection of loaders available to counter any problems. This doesn't help though when your disc wont boot to start with on some machines (usually a machine you really need it for), something isolinux suffers less with.

PS: I grabbed the image from DeviantArt, I though it looked interesting... . Your screens are much more involved than mine, I just get lazy after a while.

[jetman]

kof94, on Feb 12 2007, 12:55 PM, said:

Personally I used CDShell cos it was the loader of choice from Flyakite's guide!

I'm quite impressed about how easy it is to create an interesting menu using isolinux and I'm determined to make it work for me in the way I want it to.

I haven't really ran into any problems except for memdisk which does cause problems. I'm still trying to look for an alt for booting floppies when memdisk falls over.

As I said before my main reason for moving to isolinux is because CDShell is no longer an active project. If this was not the case I would probably still be using it just because of the selection of loaders available to counter any problems. This doesn't help though when your disc wont boot to start with on some machines (usually a machine you really need it for), something isolinux suffers less with.

PS: I grabbed the image from DeviantArt, I though it looked interesting... . Your screens are much more involved than mine, I just get lazy after a while.

RSN, I will try DISKEMU, as I too am having trouble w/ MEMDISK. My preferred RAM diag (Doc Mem) crashes for no good reason. The other parts of the same floppy image work fine, but Doc Mem craps out.

As far as loaders go, how many does one really need ?

DeviantArt is a definite keeper ! Thanx. More dope for the wallpaper fiend ! I got those images of mine via Google Images. A search for +Linux +Wallpaper or +"Star Wars" +Wallpaper and I was high for days !

[kof94]

Quote

As far as loaders go, how many does one really need ?

You don't really need loads, just one like diskemu or BCDW that reads an image from the disc instead of loading it in memory!

I'm not really sure how to get round this at the mo but I'm sure something can be done.

[jetman]

kof94, on Feb 13 2007, 10:08 AM, said:

Quote

As far as loaders go, how many does one really need ?

You don't really need loads, just one like diskemu or BCDW that reads an image from the disc instead of loading it in memory!

I'm not really sure how to get round this at the mo but I'm sure something can be done.

Kof: Not to be dense or argumentative, exactly what do you mean by: 'BCDW that reads an image from the disc instead of loading it in memory' ?

For ex, SYSLINUX deals w/ FAT-formatted media, ISOLINUX deals w/ cdfs/iso9660 media, EXTLINUX deals w/ ext2-formatted media, etc. When you select something from the menu, <xxx>LINUX loads your choice into RAM and boots it. What else is there ?

[kof94]

Quote

Kof: Not to be dense or argumentative, exactly what do you mean by: 'BCDW that reads an image from the disc instead of loading it in memory' ?

For ex, SYSLINUX deals w/ FAT-formatted media, ISOLINUX deals w/ cdfs/iso9660 media, EXTLINUX deals w/ ext2-formatted media, etc. When you select something from the menu, <xxx>LINUX loads your choice into RAM and boots it. What else is there ?

Ok, crash course in CDShell.

CDShell was developed as an updated version of Diskemu, however, it became a shell (hens the name) for the most widely used CD/floppy boot loaders available.

These included:

- Diskemu
- BCDW
- Isolinux
- Memdisk

There is also another command called 'chain', mainly used for loading windows boot sectors but I have no idea where that came from.

The main differences about Memdisk and Diskemu are:

Diskemu reads the contents of the image from your disc bit-by-bit in memory as required. Memdisk loads the entire image in memory.

Memdisk does have some advantages but in my personal experience causes more problems that it solves. The reason Docmem and many other programs don't like memdisk is because they require the memory space already occupied by it!

The author of CDShell also enabled Diskemu to read the contents of .iso images aswell which in my opinion makes it vastly superior.

Now onto BCDW (Bootable CD Wizard).

This project has also been abandoned, however, it has some of the advantages of the above mention Diskemu.

It can load windows boot sectors, binaries e.g. isolinux.bin and read floppy images in the same manor as Diskemu. It can also load iso's but it only reads the boot sector.

At present I feel that BCDW may be our best option to hodge together a loader mechanism for our troublesome floppy images.

I'm going to download 2.1a and try to see if I can past a command to boot various images from isolinux.

Ideally I'd like someone to reverse engineer CDShell and extract diskemu from it but I can't see that happening. Besides, even if I wrote to the author and got the source code I'd need someone else to rewrite it.

I hope this helps to highlight what I mean. If you still not sure, download a copy of UBCD, press [insert] before selecting any of the progs to enable the loader selection menu (so called "expert mode") and have play. Try Docmem using Memdisk, Diskemu and BCDW.

Catch ya later.