another "Please suggest hardware for budget build" thread

[E-66]

First, my personal definition of "budget" basically means the CPU should cost $100 or less, and the video card (if needed) should cost $50 or less. I'm not a gamer so I don't need blazing cutting edge video, but I'm still looking for good overall bang for the buck and quality hardware. I'll spend a little more here and there if I have to, but I don't want or need to spend $500+ each on a CPU & video card.

As a point of reference (and maybe for a good laugh), my current system is a socket-A Athlon Thunderbird 1000 MHz with 512 MB RAM, overclocked to a whopping 1035 MHz. It was originally on an ECS K7S5A, but that board started acting up and a few months ago I replaced it with a recertified PC Chips board from Newegg for $17. At that price I figured I'd take a chance since I didn't want to dump much money into it. So far so good, but I want a new system.

For another good laugh, I've just gotten familiar with XP in the last 6 weeks or so. Haven't even activated it yet since I don't have the hardware for this upcoming system. My customized minimal Win98 install has served me well for years, but there are 2-3 programs I want to use that won't run on 98, and I want to use larger HDDs and go SATA and don't want to deal with 98's HDD size limitation, so I finally felt it was time to give XP a shot.

This is just going to be a 'general duty' PC. The most demanding thing I use my rig for is music editing, with files seldom larger than 100 MB. Mostly what I want advice on is which CPU & motherboard to get because I can't make up my mind after doing plenty of reading the last couple months. I'll either be running XP by itself or in a dual-boot with Win98, can't make up my mind there yet either.

I'm leaning towards an AMD Athlon 64 (not X2 or FX) because the last system I built was AMD based and I'm just more familiar with AMD CPUs. Initial research during the summer led me to a socket 754 system, but after more investigation it seemed pointless to go that route so I turned my attention to a socket 939 system because I thought it would be cheaper than a socket AM2 system with more expensive DDR2 RAM. Fast forward to the present, and DDR2 is pretty much the same price as regular DDR.... so is there any reason whatsoever to consider a 939 system over an AM2? I know AM2 doesn't offer any significant performance advantages, but it is AMD's current socket design that supposedly will be compatible with their next generation CPU.

I've considered an Intel system using an Intel chipset on the motherboard because I thought I read on this forum that Intel chipsets were more stable/forgiving with a legacy OS like Win9x, so I thought that might be the way to go if I dual-boot with Win98.... but after doing more reading it seems there are/were some major heat issues with the P4 Prescott CPU, which I *think* is the Intel equivalent to my Athlon choice. I'm not anti-Intel, I'm just not as familiar with their CPUs and don't know what the equivalent versions of Intels are compared to AMD, so feel free to chime in in that regard and suggest a CPU if you think it's a better choice than the Athlon I currently have in mind (AM2 Athlon 64 Orleans core, $90 or less at Newegg).

I'd like to use two SATA 3.0 HDDs for XP and archive material, but I haven't fully researched if there are any issues with SATA and Win98, so since I have a few decent PATA HDDs already I guess I can use one of them for Win98 if I go the dual-boot route?

For a motherboard, I guess I should try to get one with at least two SATA 3.0 connectors, preferably 4. A big source of confusion for me is the chipsets used on motherboards. I don't know what I should be looking for or what to stay away from, why someone chooses a VIA over nVidia, or vice-versa.

I guess it's kind of nice to be able to read through the reviews on Newegg, but a lot of them look like they were written by imbeciles, and there's no way to contact the people to ask them any questions so I take much of what I read there with a grain of salt.

Final question for now is LAN speed. I used to see just the 10/100 Mbps spec on boards, but now I see 10/100/1000. For whom is the '1000' spec important? I mean who can take advantage of a board with that spec?

Thanks for any forthcoming replies, looking forward to seeing some opinions.

[jcarle]

My suggestion is as follows:

Antec SLK1650B, $69.99

ASUS P5L-VM, $94.99

Intel Celeron D 331 Prescott 2.66GHz, $51.00

OCZ Value Series 1GB DDR2 667, $99.99

Western Digital 80GB 7200RPM 8MB SATA, $43.99

Pioneer DVR-111D DVD+/-RW, $31.99

Total Cost: $391.95 (+ taxes)

If you want a basic dedicated video card, you could just add something like ASUS EN6200LE @ $35.99.

[E-66]

Thanks for the quick reply. I'd like to get a DVD burner too but I didn't want to clutter an already long post with that, but thanks for the link.

As I said, I don't know much about Intel CPUs so please explain why you selected that one. Also, is their Socket 775 likely to be around down the road a bit yet or is it already being phased out in favor of something else?

[jcarle]

I picked that CPU because it's the cheapest Intel CPU you can buy at the moment. At 2.66GHz even if it has a smaller cache then a Pentium or is only single cored or is not a Core 2, still is 2.6 times faster then what you're used to. However, the motherboard I picked supports up to the Core 2 Extreme, which means that no matter which CPU you'd like to upgrade to down the line in the next two years or so, you'll be able to.

[E-66]

I don't know... according to the Wiki page on the Celeron D, the CPU you suggested was released over 2 years ago. For $30 more I can get a socket-AM2 Athlon64 that was released a few months ago. I don't know how they compare performance-wise, but I would think the Athlon would be superior being so new. For a system I'm going to use for several years the extra $30 is nothing.

I know I'm not building a very exciting system by anyone's standards here, but if anyone has a socket-AM2 system please chime in.

[ripken204]

well if u rly want amd then go and get it.

[E-66]

What kind of reply is that? I don't "really want AMD," I just pointed out that the AMD CPU is only a few months old and only $30 more than the Intel that's a few years old.

[jcarle]

I only suggested that processor to keep the price down. I don't think you understand the concept of what I did. The motherboard is core 2 compatible, but building a core 2 system would blow your budget because core 2 CPUs are several hundred dollars. But having a motherboard that's core 2 ready give you the options to upgrade to it in the future. You can build the same machine with a Pentium D 930 or any other LGA 775 processor since the motherboard takes them all.

[E-66]

Ok, I understand better now, thanks. So Intel socket-775 motherboards are 'modern' enough that they're not going to be phased out for a while yet then?

Edit: I don't really have a 'budget,' I just don't want to spend more than I need to for what will be sufficient for my needs. I already know I'll be getting two 320 GB HDDs and one smaller one, but I'm not enough of a power user to require a cutting edge video card or CPU. I don't mind buying a little behind the leading edge of the technology curve in other words.

If anyone could address my question about motherboard chipsets I would appreciate it. What makes someone want a particular motherboard chipset?

Edited November 25, 2006 by E-66

[ripken204]

What kind of reply is that? I don't "really want AMD," I just pointed out that the AMD CPU is only a few months old and only $30 more than the Intel that's a few years old.

if u dont want amd then why did u even mention it? i was assuming that u liked amd and was wondering about their new socket. in which i suggested that you get it since you will be future proofed for amd.

[Zxian]

Ok, I understand better now, thanks. So Intel socket-775 motherboards are 'modern' enough that they're not going to be phased out for a while yet then?

If anyone could address my question about motherboard chipsets I would appreciate it. What makes someone want a particular motherboard chipset?

Socket 775 has a lot of variation in it. CPU compatibility for Intel CPUs typically goes by socket and chipset. AFAIK, you'll need the 945 chipset in order to run Core 2 Duo CPUs. AMD's typically work by socket for the most part, and then by whatever the motherboard can handle (My Abit NF7-S motherboard can handle up to a XP 2500+ if I remember correctly, but it's currently running a 2000+).

As for wanting a particular chipset - it comes down to compatibility and features and performance. The system that jcarle specced out for you will be stupidly fast compared to your old system (I know - I've built several similar computers, and they make my XP 2000+ look like a slug on valium). It also has the futureproof where it's needed - at the motherboard level. You'll be able to upgrade to any processor that's on the market today. Just imagine a year from now when the X6800 has come down to being only $100 or so... you'll be able to pop it right in and go from there. Want a new video card? PCI-E x16 isn't going anywhere for a LONG while. Need more RAM? Just buy more and pop it in.

The system as it is will handle Vista - albeit not incredibly well. A beefier video card and a dual core CPU will help in that regard. My suggestion though, is that you get what's listed there and then upgrade it when needed. Prices will have come down considerably by the time you ever get around to running Vista.

And as a last note - being familiar with one CPU manufacturer doesn't mean that you have to be locked in to them forever. Intel fell behind a bit a year or so ago, but they've really thrown a big curve ball at the market. The only reason AMD is still in the running is because they slashed their prices by a big margin.

[E-66]

And as a last note - being familiar with one CPU manufacturer doesn't mean that you have to be locked in to them forever.

Absolutely, I agree. It's just that I'm familiar with the AMD line and kept abreast of their offerings since I've used their CPUs for my last build and the 2 others I've done for friends. It certainly doesn't mean I can't start educating myself about Intel CPUs, but I am in the dark with regard to them so that's why I'm on here asking.

[Zxian]

Then you've come to the right place.

Did you get most of the answers that you were looking for? jcarle could better inform you about the differences between chipsets than I can, so if you want the nitty-gritty explanation, you'll have to wait on his reply.

[jcarle]

The differences between chipsets are crucial, especially when dealing with Intel. The northbridge controls what processor, memory and video card you'll be able to upgrade to and the southbridge controls what kind of mass storage options you have, the kind of audio, usb ports, pci slots, and things like that.

Here's three chipset diagrams where the southbridge stays the same, but the northbridge changes:

975X NorthBridge: http://www.intel.com/products/i/chipsets/9...75x_diagram.gif

955X NorthBridge: http://www.intel.com/products/i/chipsets/9...55x_diagram.gif

945G NorthBridge: http://www.intel.com/products/i/chipsets/9...45g_diagram.gif

Notice how the configuration of the PCI-express graphics slots change as well as the processors supported yet all the southbridge (ICH7R) options stay the same.

Now, put aside the fact that the northbridges are different, look at the differences between the southbridges:

ICH7R SouthBridge: http://www.intel.com/products/i/chipsets/9...55x_diagram.gif

ICH8R SouthBridge: http://www.intel.com/products/chipsets/q96...965_diagram.gif

10 USB vs 8 USB, 6 SATA vs 4 SATA, Gb LAN standard not optional.

Motherboard manufacturers revolve around what the chipset can do, some manufacturer will add on 3rd party chips for, say audio, sata/ide or usb, but at the core, certain things cannot be changed without changing the chipset, such as processor support or memory type.

Hence were the importance of choosing the right motherboard. The manufacturer you choose determines the additional features (aside from the reference chipset features) as well as the quality of the part. One of the reasons why ASUS is so highly recommended is because most of their motherboards are of great quality with more features then anyone ever needs.

[Zxian]

And that's why I listen to jcarle when I make my hardware purchases. He's a walking Intel encyclopedia.