[xtrm]

Hi everybody! I've found this forum searching the internet for win98se updates, as I am a 98se lover and just do not want to switch my (main) system to 2k or even XP (never!). I've been using 98se since release and after years of "studying" and using it, I'm so familiar with it and just love it.

Still there are some problems I never got rid of - and the probably most annoying one is this connection problem. Ever since I got internet (6,5 years now, always the same connection - ADSL) I've had it and I never found a way to solve it. Here's the (rather short) description:

Ever since I got internet, my connection dies after some time when I am permanently uploading something. The connection is there, but it's just dead. I can disconnect and reconnect to the internet, but it won't find any webpages, servers, etc., just nothing. Only a reboot helps, after that the connection works perfectly again. So when I have eMule running, after some time just everything stops and the connection is virtually dead. Sometimes it's after 10 minutes, sometimes after 4 hours, and it does not matter if the whole upload bandwidth is used or not. I can download as much I want, it will never happen, only with upload. Sometimes it even happens when I play an online game and talk with mates over ventrilo at the same time. But it also happens when I refresh the serverlist in Steam and it wants to load the information for thousands of gameservers at the same time. I guess it's some kind of overflow, windows gets too much information or something requires too much information and then everything is just dead. But I never found any infos about that problem nor something to solve it. Oh and as far as I know, it does NOT happen with 2k (I never tried XP, but it wouldn't make much difference I guess).

setup: different PCs, windows 98 SE without any updates (yet!), alcatel speed touch home ADSL ethernet modem (it's old, I know I know), no router/switch/network etc., just a single desktop with direct connection to the internet, no firewall

I have posted this issue on some forums, like hardware and gaming forums, but nobody ever had a clue, and most replys were just anti-98(se) posts, which are not THAT useful at all . So as here are the REAL win9x masters, I hope somebody is able to solve this problem that has been hunting me for years now.

thanks in advance, Andreas, dedicated 98se user

This post has been edited by xtrm: 27 November 2006 - 06:48 AM

[glocK_94]

Hi Andreas! (cool, a Deus Ex fan)

Hmm. You should really try to update your 98. Apart from that I don't know. Alcatel Speed touch you say? I know someone who had trouble with it. You have drivers for that I think. Are they recent?
And to avoid rebooting, have you tried closing your connections one by one using a program like TCPview?

This post has been edited by glocK_94: 27 November 2006 - 11:35 AM

[Countach69]

1-Have you ever tried using your ADSL modem in a different phone jack in your house/apartment?
A friend of mine has difficulty obtaining a constant/steady connection using the phone jack in the room where he uses his computer but no problem whatsoever when using the phone connection located in the kitchen area. The phone wiring reaching his bedroom is the culprit; he now uses a 50 feet extension to the kitchen phone jack.

2-If you know someone who has an ADSL modem you might want to borrow it for an afternoon to do some testing. Borrow everything from that individual, that is:
-ADSL modem
-External ADSL power supply
-AND Ethernet cable

You'll be able to kill 3 birds with one stone, that is, test the modem, power supply and ethernet cable.
A friend of mine lost his ADSL power supply and went out and bought a new one. Unfortunately the specifications for this new unit did not match exactly with his old one. The modem worked, but he kept experiencing odd behaviour from his internet connection. When i bought him the exact match everything went back to normal; fortunately no permanent damage was done to the ADSL modem.

3-Your Ethernet Network Inteface Card (NIC) could be the problem or the driver powering it. You can:
-Update the driver.
-Some NIC have a bunch of settings you can change; reset them all to their default values. You'll find these settings if you right-click on the Network Neighborhood icon on your Windows desktop.
-Again, if you know someone with a spare Ethernet card you could borrow it.

4-Try to find a constant way to reproduce your upload problem. Try to upload a large file to a file hosting service like: rapidshare.com or fileho.com and see if you can make it fail intentionally.

5-There are also a ton of variable to check:
-Are the ADSL filters installed on the other phone line in the house?
-Is your system stable?
-Is it overclocked?
-What program are running in the background?
-Have you tried a fresh install of Windows with only the following software installed; Windows, chipset driver, ethernet driver and ADSL connection uutility?

6-And last but not least, have you tried using TCP Optimizer from www.speedguide.net
I will cut and paste the instruction from a previous post:

Windows TCP/IP settings are far from optimal; this also includes XP.

1a-Do a download test.
1b-I like to download the Chimp Demo from ATI's website.
hxxp://www2.ati.com/misc/demos/ATI-9800-Chimp-Demo.mpg
(Replace the hxxp to http)
1c-Take note of the speed at which you are downloading.

2a-Go to the following address: hxxp://www.speedguide.net/
(Replace the hxxp to http)
2b-On the left side select: SpeedGuide.net TCP/IP Analyzer
2c-This will analyze the TCP/IP settings of Windows.
2d-Look at the section labeled: bandwidth * delay product
2e-You will see the maximum bandwith your current TCP/IP provide.
2f-Take note of these results.

3a-Now, again on the left side, select: TCP Optimizer
3b-Download: TCP Optimizer
3c-Go to the middle of this webpage in the section: Microsoft Windows 9x Vtcp.386 Update
3d-Download: 236926usa8.exe

4a-Execute the Microsoft patch: 236926usa8.exe
4b-Don't reboot.
4c-Execute: TCP Optimizer
4d-Set the slider Connection Speed to: 15000 Kbps
4e-Network Adapter selection: Select your Network card
4f-Select: Optimal settings (located bottom right of the screen)
4g-Select: Apply changes, then OK and reboot.

5a-Go back to SpeedGuide.net website and redo the TCP/IP Analyzer test and look at the results.
5b-Redo the previous download test from ATI.

Countach69

This post has been edited by Countach69: 27 November 2006 - 03:36 PM

[xtrm]

glocK_94, on Nov 27 2006, 06:35 PM, said:

Hi Andreas! (cool, a Deus Ex fan)

Hmm. You should really try to update your 98. Apart from that I don't know. Alcatel Speed touch you say? I know someone who had trouble with it. You have drivers for that I think. Are they recent?
And to avoid rebooting, have you tried closing your connections one by one using a program like TCPview?

I do not have drivers for the modem itself, we don't need/use them here at all. I plug it in (ethernet card -> modem -> splitter -> phone jack), I install all necessary protocols, I set the settings for the TCP/IP ethernet protocol and there you go.

And no, I did not try to use a program like TCPview, never heard of that. But I don't really know what you mean by "closing connections one by one". When I connect to the internet, I have a icon for the connection in the systray of course, and when I close it, I consider myself disconnected from the internet without any open connections left . It's not like there is ANYTHING I can do when that thing happens.

*edit* I see, you mean this prog. Looks really neat, I definitely will check this out and see what it tells me when this problem happens again. */edit*

Countach69: thanks for your post. To the points:

for 1, 2, 3: no, I do only have this one phone jack in my apartment, and I do not know anybody who has an ADSL modem here, they all have cable (called chello). But I have different ethernet cables and I have also made networks with friends to play over 2 or more computers at home (like last weekend), and it always worked without any problems. Also, remember that I do not have this issue with windows 2000, so doubt that it's a hardware problem. I have all the original hardware from my ISP, the modem, its power supply and even the ethernet cable, and it always worked. I use the driver for my NIC from the NIC software cd, for 98se and for 2000. For point 4 see the end of my post.

for 5: as I said, I've had my internet and this problem for over 6 years now, and I have owned 3 different PCs during that time, and the problem was always there. The first one was a P3 500, not overclocked, the second one a 1GHz Athlon, not overclocked and this one, the P4 2.8@3GHz (2,9 now), has been my system for over 4 years now. It wasn't always stable, but it is right now. Programs running after boot are very few: explorer, systray, proxomitron, microsoft intellipoint software for my mouse, speedfan for the temps, and norton AV. That's all.

for 6: I have used speedguide.net and its analyzer for like 2 years now, also for optimizing my connection, like MTU and RWIN etc., I'm no stranger to that. It simply does not help a BIT for this problem. I don't really use the TCP Optimizer tho, only for checking things sometimes, I rather work on the registry my own. I don't like the feeling of a program doing things in my registry without exactly knowing what keys it changes.

As far as I know, I also have tried this VTCP update without any difference, but I will try it again. I'm currently not at home and I do not have access to the net at home until first of December, but I will try it then.


Oh, and one more maybe helpful information. I don't know how many of you (if any at all ) know what the game counter-strike is. In short it's an online ego-shooter and I've been playing it for over 6 years now (and always had that problem). In CS there exists a hardcoded fps limit of 100, so you cannot have more than 100 fps in the game. And there is a command called cl_cmdrate that sets how many packages of data you send to the server you play on per second. When I set this command above 100, like 101, the ping immediately starts increasing until my connection is totally dead and I have to reboot to make it work again. It also happens when I have cmdrate at 90 and my fps rate drops below 90.
The opposite command (how many packages of data you request from the server per second) is cl_updaterate and I can set it to 1000 if I want to, it works perfectly. And again, this issue does not happen with windows 2000, I can set cmdrate to 101 or above there without any problems. Most people who know the game well have cmdrate (and updaterate) 101, as it's the games' maximum and it provides the most accurate information about what is going on at the server - the more data the better .

This post has been edited by xtrm: 28 November 2006 - 01:56 AM

[glocK_94]

Come on, who DOESN'T know CS? Especially here !

Anyway, I agree with you. It's probably not a hardware problem. Try to check TCPview (should have given you the link. My fault).
Ok. It's a modem, so you have to connect but you don't have drivers... What do you use to connect ? ISP program or just windows?
Hmm. What difference is there between your XP system and your 98. Same AV for exemple ?
Stupid question but Norton is not allowed to connect right ? :

I don't want to be annoying and repeat myself but one thing to do is to update your system. There's everything you need for that here.

[xtrm]

glocK_94, on Nov 28 2006, 12:24 PM, said:

Come on, who DOESN'T know CS? Especially here !

Anyway, I agree with you. It's probably not a hardware problem. Try to check TCPview (should have given you the link. My fault).
Ok. It's a modem, so you have to connect but you don't have drivers... What do you use to connect ? ISP program or just windows?
Hmm. What difference is there between your XP system and your 98. Same AV for exemple ?
Stupid question but Norton is not allowed to connect right ? :

I don't want to be annoying and repeat myself but one thing to do is to update your system. There's everything you need for that here.

I just use Windows to connect, no program at all. And I only use this one P4 system I posted above, when I switch to 2k (I don't even have XP at all ), I just switch HDDs. I use the same programs for both, just the 2k/XP versions of the drivers for NIC, GFX, etc. . And no, everything norton wants to do automatically is disabled. I like to click the live update button myself .

[Countach69]

You're using the driver for the ethernet card from the original ISP installation CD and that you've always done so with all of your computers? There could be a bug with the Windows 98SE driver and not with the 2000 one! Eliminate that variable by looking for an updated driver.

Does your most recent computer sports an integrated NIC? If so, have you ever tried using that one instead of the one supplied by your ISP?

Playing a game locally over your network and playing over the internet are 2 separate things. Your IP packets will go through many networks and will be fragmented much more then on a LAN. Any "flakiness" on the part of the driver/hardware combination may result in what you are experiencing right now with your upload problem. I would focus my attention toward the NIC and NIC drivers. If you can update the drivers or better yet get yourself another NIC with a DIFFERENT chipset on it.

P.S.
Never assume anything with computers...just test, test and re-test again!

Countach69

[xtrm]

Yes, as far as I know does my mainboard have onboard LAN. I think I will try that. My NIC (a realtek) is very old anyway, I carried it over from my last PC 'cause the NIC I had purchased, a very expensive 3com NIC, only had drivers available for 2k/XP - very smart move . I think I first will check if I have an onboard LAN and then second I will get a new NIC if necessary. Any suggestions, or better, recommendations?

[xtrm]

Well ok, the board I have does not have onboard LAN, and the new driver I downloaded from the realtek page for my NIC (a realtek 8139, "RTL8139(A/B/C/8130)" to be exact) is useless, at least windows tells me that it does not find any hardware information when I unzip the files to a dir and tell windows to search within the dir for drivers.

So, any recommendations for a good (and not so expensive) 98se-compatible NIC?

This post has been edited by xtrm: 29 November 2006 - 01:48 AM

[glocK_94]

xtrm, on Nov 28 2006, 04:48 PM, said:

very expensive 3com NIC, only had drivers available for 2k/XP - very smart move

Before buying a new card, check the drivers you downloaded. There are WHQL drivers avaible compatibles with all windows (6.39) but also a Win9x only drivers (6.35) that might be more appropriate.

But maybe you already tested all that stuff... :

[Petr]

I am sure that almost every network card must be OK, starting with Edimax EN-9130 TXL that costs about € 3 and ending with Intel® PRO/1000 GT Desktop Adapter for about € 30.

What Realtek chip is on your current NIC?

Petr

[xtrm]

glocK_94, on Nov 29 2006, 11:20 AM, said:

Before buying a new card, check the drivers you downloaded. There are WHQL drivers avaible compatibles with all windows (6.39) but also a Win9x only drivers (6.35) that might be more appropriate.

Where the heck did you find these drivers? I checked the official page at realtek.com.tw and there you only have the 649 for win98SE, ME and 2k -> click <-. I will try yours when I'm at home again. *edit* is it just me or do these drivers you linked just not exist? that's what it tells me at least - and browsing the FTP you won't find the dir where the drivers should be in too. */edit*

Petr, on Nov 29 2006, 12:29 PM, said:

I am sure that almost every network card must be OK, starting with Edimax EN-9130 TXL that costs about € 3 and ending with Intel® PRO/1000 GT Desktop Adapter for about € 30.

What Realtek chip is on your current NIC?

Petr

Honestly, I do not know at all what chip on my NIC is, I just now that this NIC is about 6 years old and I have always used it and its driver. So that could really be the problem...although...I think I maybe had a different NIC in my old P3 500, a Trust NIC which only had a floppy disc with the drivers on it I think, but I'm not sure.

This post has been edited by xtrm: 29 November 2006 - 10:19 AM

[Petr]

xtrm, on Nov 29 2006, 01:03 PM, said:

Honestly, I do not know at all what chip on my NIC is, I just now that this NIC is about 6 years old and I have always used it and its driver. So that could really be the problem...although...I think I maybe had a different NIC in my old P3 500, a Trust NIC which only had a floppy disc with the drivers on it I think, but I'm not sure.

OK, I really don't know what may help you or not, I just read that the Realtek driver you tried to install was incorrect. There are several ways how to identify your NIC.

1. To look at it and read the NIC part number or the network chip part number, for Realtek it will be RTL8xxx.

2. To use some program for hardware identification, very good is Everest, the latest version of Everest Home i build 2.20.475: http://old.winpack.o..._build_0475.zip or you can use trial version of Everest Ultimate downloadable at Everest homepage: http://www.lavalys.com/products/download.p...=UE&lang=en

3. To get the PCI ID of this board, it looks like 10EC:8129, in this example 10EC is manufacturer Realtek and 8129 meand chip RTL8129. This information can be obtained by various ways:
a) read during boot on the BIOS boot screen
use any utility for reading PCI devices
c) use REGEDIT, find HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Enum\PCI key, and here are several keys, for every PCI device one. For example, for my 3C905C NIC it is HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Enum\PCI\VEN_10B7&DEV_9200&SUBSYS_100010B7&REV_30 - here is even additional information about the susbystem ID and chip revision. The ID you can use for identifiying of your board e.g. here: http://pci-ids.ucw.cz/iii/ - the a.m. Realtek you can find here: http://pci-ids.ucw.cz/iii/?i=10ec8129

This information could be also used for evaluation whether your driver is suitable for your NIC. You can just look into the INF file and if you see this line inside:

%Rtl8129.DeviceDesc%=rtl8129.ndi,PCI\VEN_10EC&DEV_8129

it means that this driver is suitable for NIC with RTL8129 chip.

Other possibility is to use http://listing.driveragent.com/ - for "PCI\VEN_10EC&DEV_8129" you will find the information that driver for this NIC is part of Windows 98 SE and what the newest driver is. With paid subscription you can also download it.

Regards,

Petr

[xtrm]

Well I don't know what chip on my NIC is, but of course I know what NIC I have. As posted above, it's a Realtek RTL8139, and the driver I'm using (from its software cd) says "Realtek RTL8139(A/B/C/8130) PCI Fast Ethernet NIC". The version number is 5.376.0523.000 - or better: 5.37 (dated 25th may 2000). I found another driver now, its version is 6.20 (dated 12th dec 04) and this one works. When I want to update it and go to search for the driver in a dir, the driver names the NIC "Realtek RTL8139/810x Family Fast Ethernet NIC".

I will try this driver the upcoming weekend and see if there is any improvement.

This post has been edited by xtrm: 29 November 2006 - 03:05 PM

[xtrm]

Okay, small update here, I checked the software CD from my NIC and it's from OvisLink (www.ovislink.com.tw) and the exact description is "LFE-8139ATX/8139HTX". I just cleaned up my network neighborhood and will now check out the drivers one by one. An interesting point is, that there are only combined win98 and NT 5.1 all in one drivers, or it's for 95 and 98 first edition. Maybe they messed something up.

*update*

Ok, I first tried the 397 driver from the ovislink page. The problem in CS with cmdrate>fps still exists, emule seems to run fine at the moment, at least it is for one hour now, but one hour doesn't mean anything yet.

*update*

Well yeah, as I thought, it happened again like 5 minutes after the last edit =). Another fact that I remember now that it happened again is that when it happens, the computer hangs on shutdown with the shutdown screen of win98 (computer shutting down blah). I have to press the reset button then. I usually never see this shutdown pic when rebooting, only when I encounter this problem.

This post has been edited by xtrm: 30 November 2006 - 07:53 PM

[Petr]

xtrm, on Dec 1 2006, 12:53 AM, said:

Okay, small update here, I checked the software CD from my NIC and it's from OvisLink (www.ovislink.com.tw) and the exact description is "LFE-8139ATX/8139HTX". I just cleaned up my network neighborhood and will now check out the drivers one by one. An interesting point is, that there are only combined win98 and NT 5.1 all in one drivers, or it's for 95 and 98 first edition. Maybe they messed something up.

NDIS 5 driver should be OK for Win98 to WinXP.

But I have seen too big INF file in some driver packages, Windows 98 can handle 64 KB max.

Petr

[xtrm]

Ok, I have updated the vtcp.386 file (and done the TCP Optimizer things), and I have also downloaded executed this patch, it didn't help. I could try the 6.20 drivers for my NIC, but I doubt that it would make any difference. I will still do it later.

btw, as I do not have any modem driver etc., it tells me that my connection to the internet is 10.000.000 bps when I open the connection window. Maybe windows 98 does not get along with that?

[Countach69]

-You've now ruled out the driver part of the NIC...well almost; it wasn't a clean install of the driver and uninstalling seldom works 100% leaving behind registry keys etc. It still leaves the NIC itself.

-The connection message Windows gives you is fine.

-Your system is still overclocked, not by much, but it still is. Have you tried testing it at stock speed? Reset the BIOS values to their default so you don't forget anything.

-Since you cannot obtain an other ADSL modem for test purposes we have to skip this variable.

-Have you ever deactivate Proxomitron and Norton or better yet deactivated all the programs (except the one related to your ADSL connection manager) located in the STARTUP tab in MSCONFIG?

-The last step, and it's the one people hate, is a fresh install of Windows with ONLY the following software installed; Windows, chipset driver, ethernet driver and ADSL connection utility...and i suppose the E-Mule program.

-I am not aware of any upload related problems with Windows 98SE. I personnaly have never encountered one in my almost 4 years of ADSL use...but i do not play Counter-Strike or use E-mule, just regular HTTP or FTP uploads/downloads. A relative of mine has used most of the P2P software out there on Windows 98SE, and he never reported any anomalies like the one you are experiencing.


Countach69

[xtrm]

Please stop with the OC-thing, and also with the proxomitron stuff etc. I have encountered this problem since I have internet, and 6 years ago I did not have this computer nor did I overclock my old one, and I did also not have norton or even proxomitron on it. It is certainly not software-related and also it has nothing to do with overclocking a computer or whatsoever. The only two things that make sense are a) a windows issue or something with the modem.

[Petr]

xtrm, on Nov 27 2006, 01:18 PM, said:

setup: different PCs

Have you used the same piece or same type of NIC in these different PCs?

I have reviewed this thread again and I think it is necessary to eliminate possible points of failures step-by-step.

According to your description the problem appears when there are too many outgoing connections, right?

It may be problem of the NIC driver so I'd try different NIC with different chip from different manufacturer, e.g. 3COM 3C905B or C or Intel® PRO/1000 GT just to name some below €30. Maybe some of your friends will have some or you can buy one very cheap at http://search.ebay.at/3c905b

This would be the first and easy step.

You can also try to look at the status of the network using netstat command - using -s, -e and other parameters you can find how many concurrent connections you have and other statistics.

You can also try to play with various NIC parameters.


But I'd start with different NIC to eliminate possible driver problem.

Petr