[CoffeeFiend]

Zxian, on Jan 24 2007, 05:25 PM, said:

Ludwig Von Cookie Koopa, on Jan 24 2007, 10:48 AM, said:

The Wii is just the GCN super stupidfied with cheapo extra graphics and remote control. By that logic the Wii controller should be a extra bundle for the GCN.

Do have any idea how difficult it is to turn accelerometer data into useful information? It's definitely not just an addon for GameCube.

It's not like much of the post made much sense... as usual?

Complaining that a console is just whatever but with new graphics is like, TOTALLY missing the whole point of new consoles: better graphics. Especially with HDTVs being more common nowadays (those people want to play in HD unsurprisingly). Besides, the gamecube needed better graphics - and who cares if it's not a total hardware change? As long as it delivers. It's not like they absolutely have to change all the guts for it to be a new console. (And I doubt the Wii remote being sold as an accessory for an old game console would have sold too well)

No console war? Like they're not fighting for their share of the market (hence profit, viability and all)? I guess the millions of people thinking so are all wrong then.

Saying the Wii is a stupidfied (sic) console is overly critical. It must suck badly indeed, after all it's not like it's getting all countless good reviews, is praised by so many for all the innovation, that everybody's talking about it, and that basically everybody wants one...

And the Xbox360 a death trap? Yeah, okie. Don't own one, and don't intend to, but this is beyond exaggeration.

[Ludwig Von Cookie Koopa]

Zxian they probably already did it and they have a working gameboy3d on the side in case the NDS fails.
If the Wii suddenly lost all intrest and people suddenly started to buy CGN games they would instantly release the so called accelerator which would probably be the Wii in a nutshell.

My post made perfect sense crahak. There is no contestant in this so called system race. Why bother care about graphics when the Saturn and even the SNES can create vondeful graphics. Why should I hav to deal with polygons that looks out of order and complete eradicates my definition of realism vs represention.

[Tanthalas]

crahak, on Jan 25 2007, 12:23 AM, said:

Complaining that a console is just whatever but with new graphics is like, TOTALLY missing the whole point of new consoles: better graphics.

I think you just missed the entire point of gaming.

Gaming is about gameplay. When I first loaded HL2, I didn't say "ooh, shiny graphics." I said "oooh, shiny physics!" I have 9 consoles and a PC. My favourite games of all time are the ones with innovation in them. Future Shock, Deus Ex, Project Nomads, Steel Battlalion - these are all games that were awesome because they did something different and fun, not because the graphics were better. True, a large part of the reason for upgrading a console is to get more power, but I would much rather that power was put into creating innovative gameplay and fun level design than simply trying to dazzle no-brainer muppets with fancy graphics.

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Besides, the gamecube needed better graphics

No it didn't. I couldn't care less whether Super Smash Brothers et al were on the GameCube or the NES - if they're that much fun to play, who cares?

You have to remember that Nintendo make their consoles for the Japanese market, then bring them over here. Whereas in the western world consumers are too busy suckling at George Lucas' teet and asking for Hollywood special effects in their games, the Japanese just want something cheap and fun. And that's exactly the philosophy that the Wii embodies.

Don't get me wrong - the PS3 has the potential to be a great console. But Nintendo have created a console that is fun, interesting, innovative and £300 cheaper on launch than the other consoles. And it's good to see them back on form, frankly.

This post has been edited by Tanthalas: 18 February 2007 - 07:05 AM

[ripken204]

so graphics arnt important? then why is the ps3 and xbox 360 advertising grahpics like crazy! what is the point of directx10 with the g80 and r600! b/c it has amazing graphics doesnt mean it has horrible gameplay, take oblivion for example. its the best looking game out there and the best gameplay that i've ever had. when the game makes you feel like your there, you tend to love it even more. im not sure about you, but its tough for me to feel like im in a game with block figures...

and for me the wii isnt fun. i just dont like its games, they are too "fake" to me. i could care less about playing baseball with cartoon figures with big heads.

This post has been edited by ripken204: 18 February 2007 - 10:01 AM

[Tanthalas]

ripken204, on Feb 18 2007, 04:00 PM, said:

so graphics arnt important? then why is the ps3 and xbox 360 advertising grahpics like crazy!

Because people are stupid, and have been for a long time?

Because a higher proportion of modern gamers are casual gamers, and eye candy is needed to pick up the slack-jaws?

Ever wonder why the iPod dominates the DAP market when it sucks so very hard and the iAudio X5 exists? Gaming has become all about marketing, and graphics look good on adverts.

(The ironic part being that they still pre-render even better ones for the adverts. )

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what is the point of directx10 with the g80 and r600!

Good question. Sorry about that. I'm more a fan of OpenGL, but it just doesn't get used enough to be developed to the point that DX is at. DX is bloated (another MS shocker!), but we have to work with it, I guess.

And I will be getting 2 8800GTXs. But I'll be running them on XP until I'm forced to do otherwise.

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b/c it has amazing graphics doesnt mean it has horrible gameplay,

I don't believe I ever said that. Did I say that? I don't think I did.

I think what I actually went for there is that promoting graphics over gameplay is not a good thing, never has been, and never will be. It is more than possible to make a gorgeous game that sucks. *Cough*Halo*Cough* It is also possible to make an ugly game that rules. *Cough*GTA*Cough*

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im not sure about you, but its tough for me to feel like im in a game with block figures...

I started gaming on the Spectrum. It's called imagination. Go buy some with your next X-box purchase.

I just started playing through the Final Fantasy and Dark Forces sagas. I'm playing from the beginning, not from FF7 and Jedi Knight 2, because I care about the games and the story more than I do the graphics. I'm playing the X series too - from X:Gold. I won't shun good games because they're old.

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and for me the wii isnt fun. i just dont like its games, they are too "fake" to me. i could care less about playing baseball with cartoon figures with big heads.

The Wii does need some better games, granted. But let's consider here that the games released at launch are probably there to show off the Wii's abilities. I'm sure once we get a few more games like Call of Duty on there, it'll kick a**. FPS games on consoles normally suck, but I can see them being a little better with the Wii, for example. The controller is brilliant - no question, and that leads to an awfully large number of innovative opportunities.

This post has been edited by Tanthalas: 18 February 2007 - 02:08 PM

[CoffeeFiend]

Ludwig Von Cookie Koopa, on Feb 1 2007, 05:41 AM, said:

My post made perfect sense crahak. There is no contestant in this so called system race.

Just because you say the inverse of everybody else (including those who make the systems, games, and gaming magazines) doesn't make it so. If you're going to say basically everybody's wrong, you're expected to have strong arguments to prove your case (and you don't so far).

Ludwig Von Cookie Koopa, on Feb 1 2007, 05:41 AM, said:

Why bother care about graphics when the Saturn and even the SNES can create vondeful graphics. Why should I hav to deal with polygons that looks out of order and complete eradicates my definition of realism vs represention.

Those old consoles can't do "wonderful" graphics by any measure. I'm no gamer, and I don't particularly care much for graphics honestly, but you're on the edge of saying a colecovision can do wonderful graphics here... The newer consoles look FAR better, ~99% of folks or so would agree on this.

There is definitely a race, to get most people to buy your console so you can make profit on games (corporations are there to make profit for their shareholders). 2 of the 3 decided to go for much nicer/better graphics as one of their selling points. You're entitled to think it's misguided, but the industry analysts, exerts, opinions/feedback from game studios and all likely know better than most of us what the majority of gamers want. Just because you (being part of a minority here) don't see a point to better graphics doesn't mean there's no "war" between them...

Tanthalas, on Feb 18 2007, 07:59 AM, said:

I think you just missed the entire point of gaming.

Hmm, no I haven't. I said the new consoles are there mainly for better graphics. It's not like I said they were there to get better graphics at the expense of gameplay or anything. Once you got good gameplay, people WANT graphics! And yes, most people DO say "shiny graphics!" - they're lusting after the latest expensive video cards and all that for a reason. Some games do innovate a fair bit, but the for most part of them... not so much!

Tanthalas, on Feb 18 2007, 02:43 PM, said:

Because people are stupid, and have been for a long time?

People who disagree with you (on anything) or want different things aren't necessarily stupid. They want the same as you, but ALSO with shiny graphics. I don't really see anything wrong with that personally.

Eye candy is required for most people to buy a new console. Especially now with so much people who already bought HDTVs (or that will soon buy one). They expect better graphics, as it will make a HUGE difference on a nice HDTV compared to the old consoles. Same goes for HDTV playback (and DVD upscaling).

Tanthalas, on Feb 18 2007, 02:43 PM, said:

And I will be getting 2 8800GTXs.

Do you know just how funny it is to read that after seeing you take the time writing 2 lengthy posts about how shiny graphics don't matter (and that people should buy some imagination and such)? Perhaps you're starting to get the idea now... Good games, but ALSO with better graphics - the idea behind those new consoles.

[Tanthalas]

crahak, on Feb 18 2007, 09:36 PM, said:

Tanthalas, on Feb 18 2007, 02:43 PM, said:

Because people are stupid, and have been for a long time?

People who disagree with you (on anything) or want different things aren't necessarily stupid. They want the same as you, but ALSO with shiny graphics. I don't really see anything wrong with that personally.

You're taking things out of context here. In context, my remark to you was with reference to you saying that shinier graphics constitute the sole reason for having newer consoles. Not accurate at all, I would say. I also said that I dislike when graphics are promoted over gameplay, not that I don't like graphics. I'd have to be really dumb not to like the lighting effects in Lost Coast, or the advancements in graphics through, for example, the X series. And in that context, your last jibe about my 8800s loses its edge.

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Do you know just how funny it is to read that after seeing you take the time writing 2 lengthy posts about how shiny graphics don't matter (and that people should buy some imagination and such)? Perhaps you're starting to get the idea now... Good games, but ALSO with better graphics - the idea behind those new consoles.

Graphics don't matter nearly as much to me as they do to some people on here - but I have to make concessions to the fact that:

1) More and more games are going to need that power regardless of whether I care about the graphics or not
2) I play in rather high res settings, so I need the beef anyway.

As for my comment to Rip - he was suggesting that it's impossible to get involved in games that don't have modern graphics. Woeful, IMO.

I like graphics. I hate it when graphics are used as the sole selling point of a game/console. If the Wii, SNES or (what the heck) Spectrum is more fun to play than the PS3, regardless of the PS3's graphical abilities, then I'll be playing the other consoles every time. And new graphics aren't the whole point of new consoles at all, as Nintendo have so excellently demonstrated. The point of new consoles is to do something new with them. You get more power, so you do something with it - make a more powerful game engine, more advanced levels, better weapons, etc. You don't just blow all that power on shiny graphics. That's what the Vista designers did.

This post has been edited by Tanthalas: 18 February 2007 - 03:52 PM

[ripken204]

im not saying that its impossible to get involved with games that have crappy graphics. yes i definetly like some older game, but im talking about today's games. and i just find it true that for today's games, if the graphics suck then the gameplay usually sucks. its all about how much time the developers put into it. you say that GTA has crappy graphics? which GTA? san andreas looks pretty darn good to me on full settings.

now back to the wii, i agree with you that the controller is nice and that they do need good games, but there are just games that dont belong there, like COD. first person shooters for me just dont belong on consoles, especially the wii. the experience is 100x better with a mouse.

and finally too be helpful to you, if you are planning on getting some 8800gtx's, wait about a month or so for the 8900gtx to come out, it will have gddr4.

[Tanthalas]

ripken204, on Feb 19 2007, 12:17 AM, said:

now back to the wii, i agree with you that the controller is nice and that they do need good games, but there are just games that dont belong there, like COD. first person shooters for me just dont belong on consoles, especially the wii. the experience is 100x better with a mouse.

Normally I'd agree with you. FPS games are usually dreadful on consoles, and need a mouse. But I think being able to aim by pointing, as I believe CoD on the Wii does, would be interesting to try out. I'll have to get my mate a copy for his birthday and try it out.

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and finally too be helpful to you, if you are planning on getting some 8800gtx's, wait about a month or so for the 8900gtx to come out, it will have gddr4.

Ah, cheers for that! I think It'll be at least a month before I have the money!

[Martijn]

Moral of the posts above: Don't overdo it with the graphics. Gameplay counts. The Wii did it just right. PS3 and Xbox360 overdone it. Wii win(s)
I've ordered a M3 Simply adapter for my DS. Let's see how well video and mp3 play on it

This post has been edited by Martijn: 19 February 2007 - 09:29 AM

[glocK_94]

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"There is definitely a race, to get most people to buy your console so you can make profit on games (corporations are there to make profit for their shareholders). 2 of the 3 decided to go for much nicer/better graphics as one of their selling points. You're entitled to think it's misguided, but the industry analysts, exerts, opinions/feedback from game studios and all likely know better than most of us what the majority of gamers want. Just because you (being part of a minority here) don't see a point to better graphics doesn't mean there's no "war" between them..."

I especially liked the " know better than most of us what the majority of gamers want". Well, seems your experts don't know so much what gamers want... The PS3 doesn't quite goes like they expected... "Experts" tend to do what they have seen working and not imagine new concepts.
It's nice to see Nintendo stand up for gameplay instead of just pure power that serves always the same kind of games.
I'll be out before this turns into flame war again.

PS: FPS on console? I feel like you Tanthalas. Usually no way! But on the Wii, it reminds me of those ol' "lethal enforcer" feeling added to the PC FPS gameplay! Cool.

[ripken204]

talking about fps, the xbox 360 can go to a resoltion of 1920x1280? is this a real resolution that its putting out! b/c the lag on that would be crazy.