[Gedrean]

jetman, on Mar 15 2007, 10:04 PM, said:

Nope. It's always KERNEl. Your best bet is always to experiment, experiment, experiment. Some loaders, like the Windows loader, cooperate quite nicely. Some cases you mite have to mix and match w/ something from CDSHELL/BCDW. The most important aspect of ISOLINUX/SYSLINUX is the simplicity of its structure. For each item of a given menu pick, it's only two or three easy-to-understand lines. Transalation: you can try several possibilites in less than an hour....Jet

PS: Rather simply rely on ripping the bootstrap by brute-force, w/ BBIE, why not try my suugestion and open the ISO w/ either MS' VCD Control Panel, UltraISO, ISO Buster, whatever ? There's only one loader I can't crack at this point: the FreeBSD loader (more on that soon.) You may discover the solution is simpler than you think....

Simple answer: I'm on Win2k, so VCD CPL is out.

Long answer: Well, a lot of applications won't run on my system, it's become rather crippled due to some f***ed up actions on my part -- I got a virus, then after cleaning up what I could I tried a repair install, now half my apps don't run. And won't run. Because of missing hooks and routines. lol. Thus I'm trying to build the W2k disc, and needing to move to DVD, and while I"m at it figuring I might as well just make a dualboot of that, XP, and a dozen other things while I'm at it.

EDIT: Also, I'm not quite sure I understand what opening the ISO like that is going to achieve? I used to be able to with WinISO and IB, but I could never see any achievement other than to extract the boot image, just as with BBIE. Just that BBIE is cmdline and will actually run right now.

This post has been edited by Gedrean: 16 March 2007 - 09:41 AM

[jetman]

Gedrean, on Mar 16 2007, 09:37 AM, said:

<snip>

Simple answer: I'm on Win2k, so VCD CPL is out.

Long answer: Well, a lot of applications won't run on my system, it's become rather crippled due to some f***ed up actions on my part -- I got a virus, then after cleaning up what I could I tried a repair install, now half my apps don't run. And won't run. Because of missing hooks and routines. lol. Thus I'm trying to build the W2k disc, and needing to move to DVD, and while I"m at it figuring I might as well just make a dualboot of that, XP, and a dozen other things while I'm at it.

EDIT: Also, I'm not quite sure I understand what opening the ISO like that is going to achieve? I used to be able to with WinISO and IB, but I could never see any achievement other than to extract the boot image, just as with BBIE. Just that BBIE is cmdline and will actually run right now.

You [already know you] have bigger problems than VCD CP, BIFs, whatever. I wouldn't even attempt what you're tryinas g to do (ie. a Super0Disc-like project) at this stage. You need a stable system 1st, by whatever means nec !

If you're of dec tech skills, this may be your moment to take the Linux plunge. I think Knoppix 5.11 has enuf functionality that you could do pretty well: stable NTFS R/W support, most important. It has K3B, a Nero-like CD/DVD burner app, good driver support, KDE (a very Windows-like GUI), and overall it's very mature overall distro. They even threw in ISOMaster, an ISO editing util (!) You could continue your project and incrementally fix your W2K installation. Altho, while I normally never say die, this one sounds like a do-over.

Going back to your orig question: why breakdown an ISO ? Bec it works. It's not the only way to go or even necessarily the best way to go, but bef hitting something w/ a hammer, try a screwdriver. The hammer is always avail At the end of the day, experiment, experiment. Whatever works, works....Jet

[Gedrean]

jetman, on Mar 16 2007, 05:42 PM, said:

You [already know you] have bigger problems than VCD CP, BIFs, whatever. I wouldn't even attempt what you're tryinas g to do (ie. a Super0Disc-like project) at this stage. You need a stable system 1st, by whatever means nec !

If you're of dec tech skills, this may be your moment to take the Linux plunge. I think Knoppix 5.11 has enuf functionality that you could do pretty well: stable NTFS R/W support, most important. It has K3B, a Nero-like CD/DVD burner app, good driver support, KDE (a very Windows-like GUI), and overall it's very mature overall distro. They even threw in ISOMaster, an ISO editing util (!) You could continue your project and incrementally fix your W2K installation. Altho, while I normally never say die, this one sounds like a do-over.

Going back to your orig question: why breakdown an ISO ? Bec it works. It's not the only way to go or even necessarily the best way to go, but bef hitting something w/ a hammer, try a screwdriver. The hammer is always avail At the end of the day, experiment, experiment. Whatever works, works....Jet

I know the machine's hosed, but since it's somewhat stable (it's not constantly crashing) I can put together using hfslip and bts driverpacks and other tools 2k and XP and 98, and not have a problem. Well, 98 may not be fully slipstreamed... or at all. LOL. Kinda just have it in there as a toy OS, and to run older stuff. Won't touch ME.

Well, regarding the Linux "plunge" I've already made a few jumps in. I've got several K live CDs around and I dabble in DSL, problem is the tools I've got to run daily require windows and Wine just isn't enough. Otherwise, believe me I'd be on a mac over this hardware any day

As far as my question, I'm trying to find out what you're saying I will accomplish by breaking down the ISO? What am I trying to achieve by doing so? I mean if there's some really great trick that lets me find out a way to do stuff, awesome, but I have no idea what I want to accomplish by going in and breaking down said ISO. If I'm just looking to get the boot image, I've had one working for some time, and I don't see why I need to change it. Though, I may have to change it to get it to load the folder in the right location.

Tnx for the time.

[jetman]

kof94, on Mar 16 2007, 04:05 AM, said:

<snip>

LABEL docmem
	MENU LABEL DocMem RAM Diagnosic V3.1beta (Use "no UMB (ultra-defensive)" at bootup!)
	KERNEL memdisk
	APPEND initrd=/images/dosubcd.igz ubcdcmd=docmem

... as you'll notice the main reason why this works is because I used "Boot no UMB (ultra-defensive)" when the freeDOS image boots.

Oh, and I nearly forgot, I modded things abit so all the dosapps use the FreeDOS image instead if the LZDOS image which doesn't boot.

*Rename dosubcd.igz to lzdos.igz and fdubcd.igz to dosubcd.igz and then edit locations in bootdsk1.cfg to reflect changes.

IMO it's easier to just use the binaries for memtest86 and memtest86+ and a lot less messing about. But hey, here's to determination!!!

I too am determined, but determination don't count when sware won't cooperate !

Per your suggestion, I got hold of the DOCMEM/FreeDOS image and gave it the stuf from the other images to make NOUMBs work:

switches=/f
set os=fd
break=off
files=99
buffers=32
stacks=0,0
shell=\command.com /f /e:2048 /p
lastdrive=z
device=\himem.exe /max=64000

I now have three (!) diff HIMEM drivers (Win98's HIMEM.SYS, QHIMEM.SYS, and HIMEM.EXE) as a result of my trials but none of them work for me ! All of my testing has been under VMWARE, but after adding and testing my XP Unattended Installer to Super-Disc, I'll try it w/ a real CPU. However, I don't hold out much hope.

Fortunately, I have another CD project that I'm never w/o and that gives me DOC MEM, so regardless of the outcome, this will be our absolute final exchange on this subj. Thanx again for your patience and input....Jet

[kof94]

jetman, on Mar 18 2007, 05:23 PM, said:

I too am determined, but determination don't count when sware won't cooperate !

Per your suggestion, I got hold of the DOCMEM/FreeDOS image and gave it the stuf from the other images to make NOUMBs work:

switches=/f
set os=fd
break=off
files=99
buffers=32
stacks=0,0
shell=\command.com /f /e:2048 /p
lastdrive=z
device=\himem.exe /max=64000

I now have three (!) diff HIMEM drivers (Win98's HIMEM.SYS, QHIMEM.SYS, and HIMEM.EXE) as a result of my trials but none of them work for me ! All of my testing has been under VMWARE, but after adding and testing my XP Unattended Installer to Super-Disc, I'll try it w/ a real CPU. However, I don't hold out much hope.

Fortunately, I have another CD project that I'm never w/o and that gives me DOC MEM, so regardless of the outcome, this will be our absolute final exchange on this subj. Thanx again for your patience and input....Jet

Test this for me would ya.

Downoad the UBCD 4.0 .iso, extract it's contents and add a folder in the dosapps folder called docmem.

Place docmem.exe from the floppy image in this folder and put a batch file in there called startup.bat.

Write this in the batch file:

cls
cd \dosapps\dosmem
docmem

Then edit mboard2.cfg in the menus folder to read:

LABEL docmem
	MENU LABEL DocMem RAM Diagnosic V3.1beta (Use "no UMB (ultra-defensive)" at bootup!)
	KERNEL memdisk
	APPEND initrd=/images/fdubcd.igz ubcdcmd=docmem

Burn and test. This also works fine in VMware.

I've created my own NwDsk, very similar to the fdubcd image without the networking gumf and stuff. I did this primarily for the drivers support (ASPI/SCSI/SATA/CDROM/LFN/NTFS/HIMEM etc) so I could boot dos tools that didn't want to play ball.

When/If you've got the time take a look at the NwDsk site. I thought it would be really difficult to create my own disc but it was surprisingly easy and very modular. You just need to learn what cabs you want/don't want and where to put things so they execute the way you want them to. The rest is just a simple batch to find your cd/dvd and execute your app.

Anyway I've waffled on too long, just test this out... kof.

This post has been edited by kof94: 18 March 2007 - 03:25 PM

[jetman]

kof94, on Mar 18 2007, 03:23 PM, said:

<snip>

Test this for me would ya.

Downoad the UBCD 4.0 .iso, extract it's contents and add a folder in the dosapps folder called docmem.

<snip>

Anyway I've waffled on too long, just test this out... kof.

Why not, just not today. Unattended XP is almost there. Just have to figure out where to put $OEM$ and test. Thanx. Later....Jet

[kof94]

jetman, on Mar 18 2007, 10:26 PM, said:

...Unattended XP is almost there. Just have to figure out where to put $OEM$ and test...

$OEM$ folders, those were the days. Everything I do now is integrated into the Windows setup but thats a whole new topic for discussion.

Catch ya later.

[jetman]

Our latest and probably final update:

LABEL bootc
MENU LABEL B^oot from C:
MENU DEFAULT
KERNEL /boot/isolinux/chain.c32
APPEND hd0

LABEL bartpe
MENU LABEL ^BartPE/WinPE
KERNEL /BOOTSECT.BIN

LABEL unattxp
MENU LABEL ^Unattended XP Pro Installation
KERNEL /UXPP.bin

LABEL xpsetup
MENU LABEL Standard ^XP Pro Installation
KERNEL /PRO1.bin

As pointed out earlier, this project isn't optimized. Future (personal) editions will certainly be re-org'd, probably to move the different Linux distros onto their own sub-menu. But it works as it is and illustrates how to integrate just about everything one would want to carry around on a disc w/ a nice menu.

I used the utils from the Multi-Boot DVD Guide to create two boot folders (UXPP for Unattended XP Pro and PRO1 for a std XP Pro install) from a single XP dir, then add it all to the ISO image and menu. The 'Boot from C:' menu pick came into being so that the disc will reboot autmagically to continue an install started from one of the XP menu picks.

BTW, I even got FreeNAS to work, but at a price. FreeNAS (or the FreeBSD loader that it uses) requires the RockRidge ISO attribute, which apparently isn't compatible w/ Windows sware as the XP setup immed stopped working. But, the Linuxen seem to work okay (not much experimental time), so eventually there will be a Unix-alike only Super-Disc.

However, the work on FreeNAS (and Doc Mem to a degree) illustrates the ans to an earlier question about the reason for disassembling ISOs. It would be great if it were possible to make a Super-Disc out of disk images and ISOs alone. Unfortunately, the way that PCs (particluarly PC BIOSes) have evolved over the years, this simply isn't feasible in most cases. Period. If PC BIOSes followed a stricter standard, programmers like the author of SYSLINUX could create loaders which would be able to bring anything into RAM and launch it. Consequently, if one wants a Super-Disc-like system, one must dismantle the constituent parts of the project (one ISO/image at a time) and re-assemble them in a new modified configuration.

Another potential stumbling block is the fact that the authors of some CD/DVD applications don't allow for their works to be relocated (often due to poor design/lack of foresight.) That is, they're hard-coded to work only from specific directory configurations.

Anyway, this has been fun and rewarding. I would also point out that SYSLINUX is a toolkit for making menuing/loader systems. There are at least two other ready-made menuing/loader systems included in the stock archive, similar to the VESAMENU module demonstrated here. The key to discovering if their potential is (as expressed above): experiment, experiment, experiment....Jet

This post has been edited by jetman: 29 April 2007 - 11:30 AM

[jetman]

kof94, on Mar 19 2007, 04:09 PM, said:

$OEM$ folders, those were the days. Everything I do now is integrated into the Windows setup but thats a whole new topic for discussion.

Catch ya later.

Now you're p***ing me off ! What do you mean integrated into the Windows setup ? Don't drop a totally provocative hint and run away !!!

[jetman]

Double-post

This post has been edited by jetman: 21 March 2007 - 08:39 AM

[kof94]

Quote

Now you're p***ing me off ! What do you mean integrated into the Windows setup ? Don't drop a totally provocative hint and run away !!! smile.gif

I knew that would get you going .

I've used many, many different ways to run an unattened/Modded XP setup and now finally after nearly two years of p***ing around I've settled on the simplest setup going.

At present my setup consists of:

RyanVM's Update Pack, WMP10 addon and DirectX 9c addon.
Bâshrat's DriverPacks (all of them except MassStorage).
Windows Post-Install Wizard to install all my apps.

To bind all this together I have my own custom addon to use with the RyanVM Integrator. It consists of files to add/update unattened setup and integrate the MediaCentre Royale theme. Included in this package is an inf I made to update reg settings at specific stages of install and to finally run RunOnceEx to finish the DriverPacks setup and execute WPI. It's clean and (even if I do say it myself) professional.

Most of this is easy to do i.e adding Ryan's updates/addons and the DriverPacks. The fun really starts when your learning how to build your own addons, write inf's and configure WPI. They're a bit more time consuming.

All-in-all the $OEM$ folders, and a batch file could do the small things I've done with my little addon, I'm just being a know-it-all (let the flaming commence).

The only real benefit with integration is you don't have to use oemprecopy, or what ever it's called, that messes up F6 driver installation during txtmode. You can also run an upgrade install with the /makelocalsource switch and everything works as it should ($OEM$ folders only work on a full OEM install!). Not that I ever do but you can.

If you want some help I'll be more than heppy to barrage you with links .

Later.

[jetman]

kof94, on Mar 21 2007, 05:17 PM, said:

<snip>

All-in-all the $OEM$ folders, and a batch file could do the small things I've done with my little addon, I'm just being a know-it-all (let the flaming commence).

The only real benefit with integration is you don't have to use oemprecopy, or what ever it's called, that messes up F6 driver installation during txtmode. You can also run an upgrade install with the /makelocalsource switch and everything works as it should ($OEM$ folders only work on a full OEM install!). Not that I ever do but you can.

If you want some help I'll be more than heppy to barrage you with links .

Later.

Fascinating. They (MSOFT) make this stuf amazingly complicated. To date, I've avoided the add-on utils, partly for pride's sake and also to get the job done w/o the overhead of XML config files, hokey script langs, etc. However, it sounds that some of the external stuf could be worth looking at. One thing that definitely piques is the driver pack. Now, if that could be somehow coaxed into BartPE as well, it would be well worth the effort.

If you don't do a full OEM install, what's a partial OEM install ?

One other thing that's still outstanding (for a looong time) is scripting an unattended (or std) install from the hdrive via BartPE.

You've given yet more homework :sigh: But it's all good stuf. Later....Jet

[kof94]

Quote

To date, I've avoided the add-on utils, partly for pride's sake...

I only use Ryan's updates/addons (M$ updates/addons) and of course my little config addon.

Quote

...and also to get the job done w/o the overhead of XML config files, hokey script langs, etc

I'm lost?

Quote

If you don't do a full OEM install, what's a partial OEM install ?

What I meant was, a full install booting from disc!

Quote

One thing that definitely piques is the driver pack. Now, if that could be somehow coaxed into BartPE as well, it would be well worth the effort.

UBCD4Win already does this and I believe there is a pack based on Bâshrat's DriverPacks that you can add to your own BartPE on that site. The DriverPacks Base at some point will support this as well. One word of advice if your considering using said DriverPacks, don't bother with MassStorage. It's still not compatible enough to rely on!

Quote

One other thing that's still outstanding (for a looong time) is scripting an unattended (or std) install from the hdrive via BartPE.

You can do this simply with the little util that comes with UBCD4Win (I'm starting to become an advert here )

Later.

[Gedrean]

kof94, on Mar 22 2007, 02:14 PM, said:

Quote

One thing that definitely piques is the driver pack. Now, if that could be somehow coaxed into BartPE as well, it would be well worth the effort.

UBCD4Win already does this and I believe there is a pack based on Bâshrat's DriverPacks that you can add to your own BartPE on that site. The DriverPacks Base at some point will support this as well. One word of advice if your considering using said DriverPacks, don't bother with MassStorage. It's still not compatible enough to rely on!

Actually there's a pretty simple reason for that: Very few manufacturers make their drivers so they can be read easily or compatible, often times building their driver trees (all the files and infs) in such a nonstandard way that sometimes they NEED their own installer apps to get them to work. What fun, eh?

kof94, on Mar 22 2007, 02:14 PM, said:

Quote

One other thing that's still outstanding (for a looong time) is scripting an unattended (or std) install from the hdrive via BartPE.

You can do this simply with the little util that comes with UBCD4Win (I'm starting to become an advert here )

Which tool is that?

This post has been edited by Gedrean: 22 March 2007 - 03:37 PM

[jetman]

kof94, on Mar 22 2007, 12:14 PM, said:

Quote

...and also to get the job done w/o the overhead of XML config files, hokey script langs, etc

I'm lost?

I forget the names, but there were a couple of utils for unattended Windows configuring and scripting I looked at and dismissed a long time ago, prob here on MSFN. But they went the XML route for simple config files (as opposed to INI files) or cooked their own wimpy scripting lang.

Quote

<snip>

You can do this simply with the little util that comes with UBCD4Win (I'm starting to become an advert here )

Later.

No thanx. I've already got Python in BartPE. I just need to spend a weekend and write the code !

Will look into the UBCD4WIN forum for that driver pack. BTW, have you looked into WinBuilder at all ? Jet

[kof94]

Quote

I forget the names, but there were a couple of utils for unattended Windows configuring and scripting I looked at and dismissed a long time ago, prob here on MSFN. But they went the XML route for simple config files (as opposed to INI files) or cooked their own wimpy scripting lang.

Back in the light .

Quote

Actually there's a pretty simple reason for that: Very few manufacturers make their drivers so they can be read easily or compatible, often times building their driver trees (all the files and infs) in such a nonstandard way that sometimes they NEED their own installer apps to get them to work. What fun, eh?

Txtmode to GUI mode is the main issue. Windows recognise the correct Silicon Image drivers for formating and copying files in txtmode but it all goes tits up after the first reboot. Windows decides it doesn't actually like the drivers anymore and tries to install some other random driver instead then BSOD. It's a known issue with the MassStorage DP. I'm happy to live without them so-long-as a have a floppy drive.

Quote

No thanx. I've already got Python in BartPE. I just need to spend a weekend and write the code !

Will look into the UBCD4WIN forum for that driver pack. BTW, have you looked into WinBuilder at all ? Jet

No, I've only ever used ERD and UBCD4Win. What's Python about?

Quote

Which tool is that?

I'll try to find a link for you.

Edit: search for "XPSetupLauncher" on this page There isn't a download or link so it must be a member contribution.

This post has been edited by kof94: 22 March 2007 - 06:12 PM

[jetman]

kof94, on Mar 22 2007, 06:04 PM, said:

<snip>

Quote

Will look into the UBCD4WIN forum for that driver pack. BTW, have you looked into WinBuilder at all ? Jet

No, I've only ever used ERD and UBCD4Win. What's Python about?

<snip>

I'm surprised you haven't already heard of it. It's one of the Ps in the LAMP (ie. Perl, PHP, or Python) stack. Totally free, avail on all major platforms, used for big and small programming. GOOGLE and Yahoo even use it as part of the internal infrastructure of their web app systems. Named for the UK comedy tropue....

[google44]

Hi, jetman how can I change position of the menus ? I want to use a custom position, it is possible ? Thank you.

[kof94]

You need to mess about with the margins and the size of the display area. It's a bit of a pain really because each setting effects the other.

I did manage to align everything to the left so that I could have a pic running down the right hand side but that's about as creative as you can get. It isn't exactly inspiring but is the "simple menu system" after all.

[google44]

Quote

You need to mess about with the margins and the size of the display area. It's a bit of a pain really because each setting effects the other.

I did manage to align everything to the left so that I could have a pic running down the right hand side but that's about as creative as you can get. It isn't exactly inspiring but is the "simple menu system" after all.

Can you give me a short example ? Thank you.

This post has been edited by google44: 20 April 2007 - 12:40 AM