Jump to content

Welcome to MSFN Forum
Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to create topics, post replies to existing threads, give reputation to your fellow members, get your own private messenger, post status updates, manage your profile and so much more. This message will be removed once you have signed in.
Login to Account Create an Account


Photo

Hotfix Slipstreaming

- - - - -

  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
92 replies to this topic

#51
GreenMachine

GreenMachine

    ineXPlicable

  • Developer
  • 3,062 posts
I vote for a burn problem. I created 5 CDs for these tests, and they all seemed to require comparable times for DOS copy. My original timings were from the point where I selected the partition, to the time when the system was ready to log on after last reboot. My values were this (again, two tests for MSFN and RHSM, one for the rest):
RHSM - 35 Minutes
MSFN - 37 Minutes
TTP1 - 46 Minutes
TTP2 - 43 Minutes
RUNO - 46 Minutes

While the TTP1/TTP2/RUNO has slight variation with the posted results, I find MSFN and RHSM values to be consistant with these findings. I did set the timer start at a point AFTER DOS copy, but at the same point for all tests. This was chosen, as my first timings relied on me looking at the PC, pressing buttons, and noting times. The final timing system relies totaly on PC compiled data.

I have noticed that some CDs copy faster than others, all created with the XPCREATE scripts. Specifically, it seems that on some CDs there are some points that the CD stops spinning. This includes the 71% point of file copying. The only reason I have come up with to explain this, is perhaps the validation of slipstreamed files requires longer, as the correct .CAT file must be found. Unfortunatly, that does not explain why some CDs are so much faster than others.

I'm a little tired of installing XP for the moment. If I can devise an accuraqte timing system, that does not rely on my noting times, and does include more of the whole installation process, I may rerun the tests. Perhaps I will simply time the first part of the installation. I will also mention that the RHSM CD I used did NOT seem to display this "hiccup" when copying files.

Why would I think YOU are bashing me: you are one of the handful of people that has taken the time to test this, and provide me your feedback. For that you have my thanks!


How to remove advertisement from MSFN

#52
techtype

techtype

    * Seeker of Knowledge *

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 275 posts
I'm noticing that my slick new GreenMachine CD takes a lot longer to copy the files too. I've gained back some time by opening the ISO in UltraISO 6.51 (use only this version) then extracting all the files (except the bin files). Then I deleted all the files from the ISO (except the bin files). Then I re-added the same files from the location that I extracted to. Under File - Properties (in UltaISO) I marked "Optimize", then I resaved the ISO (Lots of activity as it claims to be optimizing). Whew! This gained back some of the lost time, but not all. Further testing and experimenting by me needed! I suspect the same thing as Green posted, there is some delay caused by something it's searching for --- Hmmmmm. But, some of the delay was apparently caused by the CDimage process.

#53
GreenMachine

GreenMachine

    ineXPlicable

  • Developer
  • 3,062 posts
Thought I wouldn't see your edit, eh?! Yes, what techtype says makes me question the CDImage process. There are a lot of switches, and I am convinced there is something to be done there. This is obviously supported by the fact that WinISO extraction - addition has an effect.

In addition, assuming that Tbone2 did not use XPCREATE to create the other CDs he benchmarked, that would also explain why my results were consistent with both timing methods: I used the same script to create each CD, the difference was in the actual files modified. Please tell, Tbone2.

I appreciate the help of both of you in debuging this problem. I do not have much time over the next few days, but I will be testing a few things, and I will post if I discover anything interesting. In the mean time, there are two tests that could be run, should time, conditions and inclinations permit.

1) Create a CD using other ISO or burning software. The CDROOT directory contains all the files that are to be burned to the CD, and the BOOTIMG.BIN file can be found in the TEMP\NEWFILES directory.

2) Replace the contents of the CDROOT directory with the contents of the TTP1 / TTP2 CD, and use the "Create ISO" option to create this CD with CDImage.

Again, thanks for your help, and post if you find something.

#54
techtype

techtype

    * Seeker of Knowledge *

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 275 posts
Yeah, I'm thinking that we need to start with a CD that has never seen or heard of CDimage. Then, we'll know. I'm shot too right now, but I'll post when I try it. (Edit - who ever edits?? :) ) More testing and experimenting needed by me, I mean!

Edit:
Well, I just tested mine again -wow- I forgot how fast the file copy was supposed to be. Then I started with my ISO - deleted my files and put in GreenMachine files.
Slow, slow copy. Very strange - Watson!

#55
Tbone2

Tbone2

    Member

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 268 posts
Well a job needs done :)

this is what i did

1 took GM's CDROOT directory changed it to XPCD and ran ISO Creator for WinXP Pro.cmd sorry don't rem where i got it...from one of the great here ...using xpboot.img because this is the way i created ttp1 cd that only took 37.5 mins to install :rolleyes:

so we what to be the same way i guess...

created the iso burnt it with nero.

will install and see what we have...BTW i created the cd from dos not in a window...

will let ya know


EDIT:


still slow copying files in dos part just some of the file are:
modem.sys long time
swenum.sys
pjlmon.dll
wdmavd.drv
.chm files
.icm files
oembios.bin
driver.cab alway take a little longer to copy
gm.dll
and many more...that normally just flashes by

maybe this will help find the problem
Posted Image

#56
GreenMachine

GreenMachine

    ineXPlicable

  • Developer
  • 3,062 posts
Thanks, Tbone2. Unfortunatly, I am not that optimistic. The script you use, from the MSFN guide, uses the same program and switches to create the ISO as I do. I have played with some switches, and I have found fast combinations, but with unwanted side effects (UPPERCASE ...). Let us know ...

#57
DaveXP

DaveXP

    The One

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,295 posts
@Greenmachine:did you find out why some people can and cant install the Network Pack in SVCPACK.INF

#58
GreenMachine

GreenMachine

    ineXPlicable

  • Developer
  • 3,062 posts
@Tbone2: I think I have found the problem, somewhere in the cab files. I'll post when I know more.

@DaveXP: Nope, I haven't gotten any further - this one here is bugging me too much. I'll keep ya posted.

#59
GreenMachine

GreenMachine

    ineXPlicable

  • Developer
  • 3,062 posts
Tbone2: After much hair pulling, and relentless help from techtype, I think we have pinpointed the problem. In the pursuit of removing every outdated file on the CD, I update any CAB fils which contain files that have been updated. This was previously done be default, and is now optional in the later versions. In repacking the cabs, I have somehow rendered them more "complex", and it is when text based setup is copying files that are inside the cab files - you can see it stutter with modem.sys, usr*.* and more - that all the time is lost.

I do not yet have the final solution, but it will be in how I repackage the cab files. Right now I am looking into:
- using CABARC instead of MAKECAB
- updating the cabs, as opposed to rebuilding them
- trying different switches/compression ratios
- reading the documentation (if someone has some - PM me please)

I also wonder if there is some sort of index inside the cab that I could update.

If someone out there has any ideas, and experienced similar problems when making cabs, give a holler. miso1391 ???

For now, the workaround is to simply select the N option (Full, No Cabs) from the menu.

Tbone2, sorry to have made go through a 15 minute file copy. I understand why you question my timing methods! The CDs I compared where compiled using the N option. Note that not updating the cab should be safe, and is in fact the way that MS outlines in KB articles. The DOSNET.INF file HAS been updated, so older versions still in the DRIVERS.CAB and SP1.CAB should not be used.

I'll post again when I get this sorted out.

#60
Tbone2

Tbone2

    Member

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 268 posts
Sorry for having me go though 15 minutes file copy ?...WTF Thats is what we are here to help each other....BTW I wasn't really question your timing methods I was questioning my system...hahahhahah

Beside thats what I like doing is trying all these new ways...Ya know when your old , like me :)

Hey when your ready with new version i have no problem testing.

Once again thanks for putting up with me...and doing a great job that the rest of us wish we knew how to.
Posted Image

#61
techtype

techtype

    * Seeker of Knowledge *

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 275 posts
Tbone2:

Your list of files that it hangs on was very helpful in confirming the problem, once we narrowed the list of suspects. It took a long time to stop "rounding up the usual suspects" and start looking at new ones!

#62
Tbone2

Tbone2

    Member

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 268 posts
Was glad i could be of help
Posted Image

#63
mdes

mdes

    Advanced Member

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 343 posts
Great Job :)

I change MAKECD.CMD to give the following possibilities (see attached files) :
  • Save & restore all parameters in file MakeCD.ini
  • Possibility to get the Windows CD from a disk folder
Michel

SOLVED=> ps : Environment variables in MakeCD.ini are not always viewed in MAKECD.CMD : could someone solve that ? (I've no time to do it before this afternoon) <=SOLVED

==> {18:33 CET}
  • SOLVED=> Context environment variables could be set global with WINSET in ENVVARS.EXE from the Win95 CD (i.e. MakeCD.ini will be generated with WINSET instead of SET). <=SOLVED
  • Furthermore, I added TEE which will also display the log (when asked) to the MS-DOS console/windows (the two ">" in MENU.CMD are to be replaced with "| TEE").
  • These 2 mods will be posted this evening after testing.
==> {2003/11/20 09:40 CET}
  • WINSET was not necessary to keep settings in environment variables.
  • Joined is an archive containing the modified MENUCD.CMD, MAKECD.CMD & TEE.EXE (this one comes from http://www.csc.calpo...e/console.shtml
==> {2003/11/20 09:40 CET} File MAKECD.CMD modified, MENUCD.CMD & TEE.EXE added.

Attached Files


Edited by mdes, 20 November 2003 - 02:52 AM.

Windows XP Pro French + SP2 Many Thanks to GreenMachine XPCREATE
Michel Dessaintes (nick: mdes) FlashList for genealogy, CongésRFV for Pocket PC

#64
GreenMachine

GreenMachine

    ineXPlicable

  • Developer
  • 3,062 posts
As techtype suggests, once we could see past the end of our noses, we could see the problem. It was in the CAB file creation. Thanks Numinous for pointing me to the docs. Not "light" reading, but I think I got it. It took two major edits (2147483648 to 250000000, and /B to /B /O-E) and everything is OK. I timed the file copy part of setup, and the repacked cabs timed in at 4 Minutes 10 Seconds, where the non repacked cabs completed in 4 Minute 0 Seconds. Since the repacked cab was about 3% smaller, I decided not to pursue further optimization.

In searching for documentation for cabinet files, I came across THIS DOCUMENT. It is an earlier version of the MakeCab document that is included in the CabSDK. The original version of MakeCab was "Diamond", and the name still carries over: the configuration file is still refered to as the DDF, Diamond Directive File. The documents themselves are nearly identical, with the exception of the mention of one file; DDUMP.EXE. This is a "Tool to dump internal format of a Diamond cabinet file". Has anybody ever seen this file, or used the original Diamond Cabinet Maker? I believe it came out in 1996. Any info or links are appreciated.

In terms of hotfixes, I have found that the USB update, KB822603, which I had been running in RunOnceEx, can also be slipstreamed with the other type I hotfixes. Thus the only hotifxes / updates that are required to pass the "Windows Update = 0" test that cannot (should not?) be run from SVCPACK are 817778, and the MSI installers (DotNet, Journal Viewer, Windows Messenger). And I know there are some of you out there, DaveXP included, that manage to install 817778 from SVCPACK.INF. My next quest will be to track this down, and make it work for me. It is the Advanced Network Package, so I will start by looking in the Networking and Components sections of WINNT.SIF. If any one has any ideas on that, speak up.

@mdes: I will look at your modifications, and possibly include them. I'm glad that you got into the code to make it work for you. (T'as bien fait. Si t'as des questions, PM moi.)

@Tbone2: Here we go again ... This should work. If you try it and have good results, please post here. If the results are NOT good, please post HERE

Attached Files



#65
mdes

mdes

    Advanced Member

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 343 posts
*** DELETED ***
Windows XP Pro French + SP2 Many Thanks to GreenMachine XPCREATE
Michel Dessaintes (nick: mdes) FlashList for genealogy, CongésRFV for Pocket PC

#66
Tbone2

Tbone2

    Member

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 268 posts
GreenMachine

Well done SIR :) on the dos copy less then 9 minutes

still installing...will edit this as the install completes.

next big time area will be the 13 minute mark.

EDIT

It took 5 and 1/2 minutes for 13 minute mark

still installing

Total time to install 42:30...this is a great improvement on time windows update is 0 updates :rolleyes:
Posted Image

#67
GreenMachine

GreenMachine

    ineXPlicable

  • Developer
  • 3,062 posts
I hadn't seen your edit, so I thought you went over to "that other site" to post the results ... Glad to see it works better, but I am still surprised it is 5 minutes slower than techtype tool. Did you use the same set of hotfixes/updates? And nine minutes seems a little funky as well: I do it in 4, and my CPU and CD are slower, and I have less RAM. How fast was techtypes CD in the textbased part? Similar? What would really be interesting is an event log export from both setups ...

Anyway, I think that may be as far as I take that bug for now. Note that one could always build the CD with the N option, and all this would become a mute point, but I do like the integrity added with updating the cabs themselves, even if the older file versions should never be used.

Thanks again to the debuging and testing department!

#68
Tbone2

Tbone2

    Member

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 268 posts
I will get them logs to ya..asap but I go back to work tonight so limit time for testing.

I did notice that KB817778 and KB822603 are install at different time then techtype's...(installed with the msi files) where as they are installed as type 1 hotfixes with techtype's

Also may have made a mistake on the type of system this is a 1.1 AMD with 256 ddr ram and its the slow ram at best. the CD-rom is a little flakey so i say that this new makecd is just as fast as techtype's way.

Now if I install your way on my main system bet it will be less then 35 minutes from boot to final boot...

BTW got a kick out of the link you put for if this didn't work,(Microsoft .com) that was funny.
Posted Image

#69
shareef59

shareef59

    Member

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 209 posts
Hi Guys
First of all, let me say what a wonderful forum this is. Such a wealth of information for a non-teckie newbie as myself. Each and everyone concerned with the CD Creator project deserves medals. :rolleyes:
Anyways, I have a, perhaps lame, question. :)

1) After doing the "Makedirs", in which folders do I place the following programes, which are called from a cmd file (as follows):

CLS
@echo off
ECHO.
ECHO Installing Internet Explorer 6.0 SP1 Full
ECHO Please wait.....
start /wait %systemdrive%\install\IE6sp1\ie6setup.exe /Q:A /R:N
ECHO.
ECHO Installing WinRAR 3.20
ECHO Please wait.....
start /wait %systemdrive%\install\applications\winrar\wrar320.exe /s
ECHO.
ECHO Installing MSN Messenger 6.1
ECHO Please wait.....
start /wait %systemdrive%\install\msn\MsnMsgs.msi /QB
ECHO.
ECHO Installing DirectX 9.0b
ECHO Please wait.....
start /wait %systemdrive%\install\DirectX9b\dxsetup.exe /opk
ECHO.
ECHO Installing TweakUI 2.10 Powertoy
ECHO Please wait.....
start /wait %systemdrive%\install\powertoys\TweakUI.msi /qb
ECHO.
ECHO Installing Power Calculator Powertoy
ECHO Please wait.....
start /wait %systemdrive%\install\powertoys\PowerCalcPowertoySetup.exe /s /v/qn
ECHO.
PAUSE
EXIT

Again, I wanted to know where the actual above program (dir/files) and the cmd (mainbatch.cmd) are placed in the various folders created.

Thank you in advance for any help!
Read the rules.

#70
GreenMachine

GreenMachine

    ineXPlicable

  • Developer
  • 3,062 posts
@shareef59: You will need to create the directories and sub-directories that you use in the example, i.e. FILESCD\$OEM$\$1\IE6sp1, FILESCD\$OEM$\$1\applications\winrar, FILESCD\$OEM$\$1\msn, FILESCD\$OEM$\$1\DirectX9b, FILESCD\$OEM$\$1\powertoys, and place your install files in the corresponding directories. Note that everything inside of FILESCD will be copied to the root of the CD, preserving the directory structure.

You are including MSI files. These are recommended by MS NOT to be run during setup itself, rather by the installed system either through RunOnce or RunOnceEx. You can place your CMD file(s) in the ROEXE directory, in which case a RunOnceEx entry will be created, and the programs will run during the first reboot. Alternativly, you can place the MAINBATCH.CMD file in the $OEM$\$$ directory, and include the call in the WINNT.SIF file in the GuiRunOnce section:
[GuiRunOnce]
    Command0=MAINBATCH.CMD
Hope that gets you on your way.

@Tbone2: Sorry for the delay answering your post ... the two hotfixes you mention are indeed treated as Type I hotfixes, but are run from the RunOnceEx point, i.e. after reboot, as opposed to the SVCPACK point, at the T-13 mark. I have not succeeded to run 817778 from SVCPACK.INF, though others have. The 822603 USB update had been running from RunOnceEx, but recent test show that it can be included with the rest of the Type I hotfixes. Note that this update will normally show as uninstalled in Windows Update inside of Virtual PC, due to VPCs USB handling.

#71
shareef59

shareef59

    Member

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 209 posts
@GreenMachine

Thanks for your previous advise, has been very helpful. Other question being, if IE6sp1 was created using IEAK, would that need to be repackaged (iexpress) and then placed in ROEXE folder? Little clarification and advise on this matter would be much appreciated!
If this has been answered previously, I apologize for asking!
Thanks in advance.

:)
Read the rules.

#72
GreenMachine

GreenMachine

    ineXPlicable

  • Developer
  • 3,062 posts
@shareef59:
I do not have a mechanism for installing a package of that type: where there are files that are used by the install, but not executed.

You have a few options. The simplest would be to just use the IE branding file: the latest IE versions (less the latest update/patch) are already included in SP1.

Alternativly, repackage as you suggest, where you could either run from RunOnceEx (ROEXE) or SVCPACK.INF (HFTYPE0). HFTYPE0 would be prefered, as you can then run the updates after.

Do you have a particular reason to want to run IE install, or were you unaware of the fact that it was already up to date?

#73
shareef59

shareef59

    Member

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 209 posts
@GreenMachine

Thank you much for your advice and suggestions. The reason I wanted to install IE Install that way (ie IEAK version) was more for cosmetic reasons, rather than anything else. I will try out your methods and see which suits me best.

On another matter, your page which give the details about your script etc, contains a link to "Current Hotfixes and Updates". It seems some of the d/l links are not available any more and I was wondering if that was on purpose or whether there were reasons behind it.

Please excuse my lack of knowledge, as I consider myself to be techinally challenged and thus a "newbie" on these matters.

Thanks again for your help and your wonderful script, along with the massive contribution you make to the MSFN Forums.
Read the rules.

#74
stimpee

stimpee

    Newbie

  • Member
  • 26 posts
:rolleyes:

GreenMachine: great script! I have been experimenting with this to make my slipstreamed ISOs but have a couple of questions...

I notice that the MDAC update (823718) looks like a type II update but according to AaronXP's Hotfixes thread, its a little different. Do I put this is in HFTYPE2? If not, where do I put it? In ROHF1 (run once I assume) I have 817778 and 822603 only, and in HFTYPE0 I have repackaged SunJava, DX9 and MDAC_TYP.

When I run the script it never creates the IMG file (I uncommented the REM to no effect) so I'm using BCD 1.11 to make the bootable image. No problem, but maybe i'm missing something obvious! :newbie:

Also, I've been using your script in conjunction with jdeboeck's minimal install scripts and so I had to comment out the copy from XP CD bit because the i386 folder was already cut down to size. Placing the i386 folder in the CDROOT folder did the trick. However, I just noticed mdes's modified version which looks like it gives you the option of choosing where to take the i386 files from... I'll give that a try. Any plans to roll that into the script?

I'm just wondering also and would appreciate the views of the regulars here on what I'm doing, i.e. stripping down XP then rolling in the hotfixes.

As for MSFN: I've been lurking for a while a then registered just so I could use the search function but I have a little bit more confidence (and knowledge) so that I'm not too intimidated to post! :)

#75
stimpee

stimpee

    Newbie

  • Member
  • 26 posts
*bump*

GreenMachine?




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users



How to remove advertisement from MSFN