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Rjecina

Modern motherboards which are working with Windows 98 (discussion)

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buyerninety    2

In Post #254, ragnargd said;

"ASRock 775i65G R3.0 can now be bought:"

[german 'newegg' type site referenced] & also said;

"Unfortunately, no CPU-Compatibility-Entries, though..."

Actually, there is cpu support list through here;

http://www.asrock.com/mb/Intel/775i65G%20R3.0/

shows R3.0 version has added support for; 'WOLFDALE CPU: Core 2 Duo,

Pentium Dual Core & Celeron Dual Core'.

Core 2 Extreme, QX6800(G0) also added.

Other changes;

such as graphics max shared memory up to 96MB (R2.0 = 64MB),

supporting onboard D-Sub up to 2048x1536@75Hz, AMR port deleted,

LAN spec mentions 'PXE', several added LED indicators (e.g.

LAN 10 or 100), COM port 'connector' (instead of 'header') added,

USB charging (e.g. iPhone) in S1, S4 & S5,

Erp/Eup ready [=low pwr consumption in Off mode],

Possibly better VRM.

In BIOS; (Still PCI/AGP is selectable, but now also)

Internal Graphics Mode ('AUTO'- card{s} present=onboard off,

all card absent=onboard on, or 'ENABLED xxMB' - card ignored=onboard

always selected)->needs confirmation, anybody?,

[some of the Boot Settings Configuration may be missing?? for

HD's and CD/DVD's? unclear.]

No change to any w98 drivers-if something in previous Posts didn't have a

driver previously, it still doesn't now.

.

*Maybe AsRock (or a supplier) had a large amount of ICH5 remaining(?),

alternatively (or additionally);

*The addition of the COM connector suggests to me that some Vendor

of a commercial/industrial nature requested AsRock to reissue such a mobo,

possibly as an alternative to other more expensive? motherboards selling

currently that are intended for the industrial sector that use e.g. ICH7R.

[Ahh, describing those mobos is too much typing for this Post.]

*Is AsRock 775i65G R3.0 attractive for us?... not particularly...

as '98 Guy' [98Guy] notes;

http://www.win98banter.com/showthread.php?t=51931

[Edit; Perhaps 98Guy meant '5.1' instead of '7.1'....and for sure, the driver in

'C-MmediaAC97DrvUDA044Logo_Win98seme2kxp.zip' lists only CM9738,

not 9761a, in its INF files for W95/W98.]

Edited by buyerninety

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xrayer    3

Hi,

I had a chance to test quite new mobo Gigabyte GA-B75M-D3V (for my colleague's parents) with UEFI for 2 days. CPU is intel Pentium G860 Sandybridge, chipset (PCH) intel B75 and 4GB RAM. It has integrated VGA - intel HD gfx in CPU core with configurable VRAM size (par of system RAM - I allocated 256MB). It has also one LPT, COM and PS/2 port.

I just done some quick tests using my utils to see how well it works under DOS. Logs are here.

You can look at new UEFI SETUP interface. It run in gfx mode and use mouse. http://rayer.g6.cz/1tmp/GA-B75M-D3V/SETUP/. There are some legacy settings like SATA IDE mode vs AHCI, emulation of port 60/64 for USB KBD, mouse emulation, loading ROM and UEFI ROM modules from peripherals, setting of LPT mode, address and IRQ. There's no advanced. setting for COM ports. I found the setup has quite poor set of settings compared to my old classic Award BIOS 6.00.

I ran FreeDOS and MSDOS on it without problems. Kbd and mouse emulation works quite well. One issue I observed was that JEMMEX and HIMEMX detected wrong XMS size - only 0,5GB instead of 3,x GB like MS himem.sys from Win98 did. It is caused by some memory holes - non-contiognous area.

Further comments in thread on BTTR forum.

I tried to install Win98SE there just for fun but I was unable to run setup (regarless various options an configuration). So I copied my working copy of W98 but it failed to boot with message about missing c:\windows\system\vmm32.vxd - sure it was there and ending with message you ma turn off PC now. It happened in 1sec. When I enabled F8 tracking and answer no to load all drivers it booted in safe mode. That was all I can did.

This mobo is simply too new for Win9x :(

I expect it will be similar for different manufactures based on new PCH chipsets intel 5x/6x/7x. So last know working config remains iP/G41+ICH7, maybe ICH9-10...

WinXP works fine there. This machine has Samsung 840 SSD and I was able to install AHCI driver after installation but performance gain is weak:

IDE mode: 400MB/s, CPUI load 10%

AHCI mode: 405MB/s, CPU load 7%

I also tried to integrated iastor.sys into my instllation CD, then I was able to run windows setup in AHCI mode but after last restart (windows install almost complette) it didn't boot - ended in restart loop. So this is reason why I installed in IDE mode and enabled AHCI later. I suspect taht driver was installed but registry entry was not properly set to load iastor.sys _during_ system boot. But I don't know where to change it in install scripts. I was able to install all drivers for chipset, network, intel core VGA, sound... except:

radic jednoduche komunikace pro sbernici PCI

(controller of simple communication for PCI bus)

VID:8086 DID:1E3A sub 1C3A/1458 rev 04

but it's not important for working system.

It runs very fast from SSD, boot time about 12sec. :)

Edited by xrayer

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rloew    93

I tried to install Win98SE there just for fun but I was unable to run setup (regarless various options an configuration). So I copied my working copy of W98 but it failed to boot with message about missing c:\windows\system\vmm32.vxd - sure it was there and ending with message you ma turn off PC now. It happened in 1sec. When I enabled F8 tracking and answer no to load all drivers it booted in safe mode. That was all I can did.

This mobo is simply too new for Win9x :(

I have Windows 98 running on an UEFI System. It is an Asus M5A97 with an 8 Core AMD Processor.

SInce you had a problem with HIMEMX, use HIMEM.

DO NOT USE AHCI, it will crash.

Go into Safe Mode, remove ALL Drivers, reboot into normal mode and redetect Drivers.

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xrayer    3

>SInce you had a problem with HIMEMX, use HIMEM.

I tried too, used himex for limiting XMS to 512M, I also limided by maxphyspage in system.ini on installed system but no effect.

>DO NOT USE AHCI, it will crash.

Of course, I use IDE mode.

>Go into Safe Mode, remove ALL Drivers, reboot into normal mode and redetect Drivers.

I tried to remove many system drivers that I guessed may cause problem but there was many entries, some doubled and I didn't have much time so I didn't clear it all an unable start in normal mode.

Does setup.exe work on your system too or you installed on other PC/VM ?

It's positive that it runs on some UEFI mobos, maybe it depend on how they take care about compatability module...

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xrayer    3

Now, the good news!

- There are 2 PCI slots to be used for a VGA and sound card.

- PCI VGA can be set as the active card in BIOS so that two cards (old PCI for Win98 and a new PCI-E card) can be installed in the same computer.

I was also thinking about this 2-VGA solution. I vaguely remember that Win98 should support more than 1 VGA (on just only monitors?)...

Would be possible to use secondary PCI VGA without switching it in BIOS? It would be anoying to go to setup before boot, maybe it could be reconfigured by writting to some chipset/vga PCI registers before win98 will boot...

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rloew    93

>SInce you had a problem with HIMEMX, use HIMEM.

I tried too, used himex for limiting XMS to 512M, I also limided by maxphyspage in system.ini on installed system but no effect.

Unless you limited memory to less than 768MB you need to set MaxFileCache as well.

>Go into Safe Mode, remove ALL Drivers, reboot into normal mode and redetect Drivers.

I tried to remove many system drivers that I guessed may cause problem but there was many entries, some doubled and I didn't have much time so I didn't clear it all an unable start in normal mode.

I did say ALL.

Does setup.exe work on your system too or you installed on other PC/VM ?

It's positive that it runs on some UEFI mobos, maybe it depend on how they take care about compatability module...

I cloned the Hard Drive from my MA785 Computer, which is about a year older, ran a Registry Script that stripped all of the Driver Entries except for a few ROOT and Network Entries, and redetected everything. A few of my Programs had to be reworked such as my SMM Hook, 64-Bit RAM API and Multi-Core API. The built in Ethernet had no Driver so I needed to add a PCI Card.

I have had so many problems with SETUP.EXE that I bypassed it years ago. I created a "pre-installed Windows Setup CD" that allows me to setup a new Machine without using Setup and with my Patches already Slip-Streamed in. I don't remember if I ever tried SETUP.EXE on the M5A97.

Edited by rloew

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xrayer    3

Unless you limited memory to less than 768MB you need to set MaxFileCache as well.

Yes I limited to 64MB...

I cloned the Hard Drive from my MA785 Computer, which is about a year older, ran a Registry Script that stripped all of the Driver Entries except for a few ROOT and Network Entries, and redetected everything.

I moved my installation too instead of clean instal. About 4 or 5 years ago I installed on Asus intel 945/ICH7 then moved to P31/ICH7 and now I was trying to move to B75...

I also moved Windows NT 4.0 - they are portable very well. I used even older install made on intel BX440, installed some drivers and still working. It's probably advantage of limited plug&pray, no ACPI etc... :)

A few of my Programs had to be reworked such as my SMM Hook, 64-Bit RAM API and Multi-Core API. The built in Ethernet had no Driver so I needed to add a PCI Card.

Cool, I saw you made 64bit api and multicore support. I just tried the demo but didn't worked for me (C2D E8500), just display

"No Available Cores"

of course I had installed DEMOCORE.VXD and added in system.ini and rebooted.

I would like to know who want to develop some heavy computation using SMP on windows98 now but it's cool as tech. demonstration of possibilities. AFAIK Japheth or someone else was experimenting with 64b long mode under DOS but nobody used it in some app yet...

I have had so many problems with SETUP.EXE that I bypassed it years ago. I created a "pre-installed Windows Setup CD" that allows me to setup a new Machine without using Setup and with my Patches already Slip-Streamed in. I don't remember if I ever tried SETUP.EXE on the M5A97.

Yes this is good idea. Win98 seems to be portable enough. I'm not sure if there's no problem with changing APM/ACPI HAL (could I call it HAL? You kno similar problem in 2k/XP..) ...I remember I was able to change from APM to ACPI, it redetected and installed devices but power button didn't worked. So making clean install on some generic HW like in som virtual machine and ther distrubute it to target PC and let system redetect all HW. Yes it seems to be only viable way...

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rloew    93

Cool, I saw you made 64bit api and multicore support. I just tried the demo but didn't worked for me (C2D E8500), just display

"No Available Cores"

of course I had installed DEMOCORE.VXD and added in system.ini and rebooted.

I would like to know who want to develop some heavy computation using SMP on windows98 now but it's cool as tech. demonstration of possibilities. AFAIK Japheth or someone else was experimenting with 64b long mode under DOS but nobody used it in some app yet...

The Demo is obsolete. It only works with older AMD Multi-Core Porcessors. Due to lack of interest, I never updated the Demo.

I have upgraded the full Version to support Intel and newer AMD Processors.

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submix8c    89

@rloew - the NEW Demo only works on NEWER AMD, not (e.g.) AMD X2 (x64) 3800 Dual Core? If so, is there a possibility you would release a non-Demo of it (E521 I would like to use it on)? No $$$ is the reason I ask, otherwise... :(

Edited by submix8c

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rloew    93

@rloew - the NEW Demo only works on NEWER AMD, not (e.g.) AMD X2 (x64) 3800 Dual Core? If so, is there a possibility you would release a non-Demo of it (E521 I would like to use it on)? No $$$ is the reason I ask, otherwise... :(

I haven't ported the changes from the Full Version to the Demo so there currently is no New Demo.

If you are interested in buying the API, I can port the changes so you can test it.

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earlytv    0

On ebay are many MSI 848P-NE02V boards, you can get new from china 1 or 10 or 100. They use the early intel 775 CPU up to 3.8 GHZ speed and I found 98SE drivers. Can 98SE run that fast? Because they have 98SE drivers I hope the bios can turn off what it cant use?

Edited by earlytv

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LoneCrusader    95

On ebay are many MSI 848P-NE02V boards, you can get new from china 1 or 10 or 100. They use the early intel 775 CPU up to 3.8 GHZ speed and I found 98SE drivers. Can 98SE run that fast? Because they have 98SE drivers I hope the bios can turn of what it cant use?

Yes. All Windows 9x can run that fast with the right updates. 98SE and ME are OK, 98FE and 95 need patches.

You should be able to find 98SE drivers for all devices on any Intel 8xx Chipset based board. I'm sure there may be exceptions out there, but I haven't encountered one yet.

Edited by LoneCrusader

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