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Modern motherboards which are working with Windows 98

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#251
ragnargd

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Hi,

on the HW-Compat-Page we have the P965-chipset. I've seen no such board in this discussion (maybe i overlooked one?).

So, there is this ASRock board P5D-DE, with this P965 chipset, PCI-E only, DDR2, SATA2, etc., which can still be bought. There is no offficial Driver-Support from ASRock for W98SE.

What would i have to expect from such board regarding W98SE? Waste of time/money?

Ragnar G.D.


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#252
schwups

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There's no official driver and xrayer's driver doesn't support intel chipsets G/P/Q965 and ICH8. It's your risk to buy this board. You can check it out and tell us your results.

I looked in the manual of P5B-DE (P5D-DE not found): AMI Bios, Storage Configuration: It's possible to set the compatible mode for legacy OS (4 devices).

Edited by schwups, 12 September 2012 - 05:24 AM.


#253
ragnargd

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There's no official driver and xrayer's driver doesn't support intel chipsets G/P/Q965 and ICH8. It's your risk to buy this board. You can check it out and tell us your results.

I looked in the manual of P5B-DE (P5D-DE not found): AMI Bios, Storage Configuration: It's possible to set the compatible mode for legacy OS (4 devices).


@schwups: Thanks for your advice - I'd rather spend that money on something else.

P.S.: Still, then, *why* is that chipset mentioned as "supported", if there is no known board listed, anyway? I wonder...

Ragnar G.D.

#254
ragnargd

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Hi,

ASRock 775i65G R3.0 can now be bought:

http://www.jacob-com...nr-1409466.html

Homepage:

http://www.asrock.co...l/775i65G R3.0/

Unfortunately, no CPU-Compatibility-Entries, though... :-(

Ragnar G.D.

#255
schwups

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I tried to check Motherboard Gigabyte ga-P35-DQ6 (ICH9 chipset). Unfortunately it died   :blink:  during testing. It went into an endless recurring restarting loop, like xrayer had experienced with the Gigabyte GA-P43-ES3G (Post 189) - random?. The graphics card was a Nvidia 7900GS and the CPU an Intel Celeron 430. I rewrote xrayers driver (inf files) for ICH10 to ICH 9. Also I wanted to test the original inf files for 2K/XP. I changed the signature "WINDOWS NT" to "CHICAGO". 

What worked until the mobo died:

The Win ME USB 2.0 driver
Graphics card - driver 82.69 with added 7900GS
Lan Realtek 8169 PCI card

What didn't:

-  ICH9 Family PCI Express Root Ports (Device Manager - yellow exclamation marks) and hence LAN onboard Realtek. I'm not sure about the three exclamation marks, where they were. Device status message was something like two PCI.VXD bustypes existing (Code 2). 

- Serial ATA Storage Controllers and Gigabyte SATA2 controller (10 devices).
  Primary and Secondary IDE controller (single fifo) had yellow exclamation marks.
  There isn't an option in BIOS to set compatible (four devices). I set them all to      
  IDE mode.
  The PATA HDD was switched in the DOS compatibility mode, as was expected.

(- Onboard sound set to disabled => no driver)

Before I could restore the registry to get rid of the DOS compatibility mode, the board died.

OS Win ME   :hello:

Edited by schwups, 22 November 2012 - 02:33 PM.


#256
buyerninety

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In Post #254, ragnargd said;
"ASRock 775i65G R3.0 can now be bought:"
[german 'newegg' type site referenced] & also said;
"Unfortunately, no CPU-Compatibility-Entries, though..."
Actually, there is cpu support list through here;
http://www.asrock.co...l/775i65G R3.0/
shows R3.0 version has added support for; 'WOLFDALE CPU: Core 2 Duo,
Pentium Dual Core & Celeron Dual Core'.
Core 2 Extreme, QX6800(G0) also added.
Other changes;
such as graphics max shared memory up to 96MB (R2.0 = 64MB),
supporting onboard D-Sub up to 2048x1536@75Hz, AMR port deleted,
LAN spec mentions 'PXE', several added LED indicators (e.g.
LAN 10 or 100), COM port 'connector' (instead of 'header') added,
USB charging (e.g. iPhone) in S1, S4 & S5,
Erp/Eup ready [=low pwr consumption in Off mode],
Possibly better VRM.
In BIOS; (Still PCI/AGP is selectable, but now also)
Internal Graphics Mode ('AUTO'- card{s} present=onboard off,
all card absent=onboard on, or 'ENABLED xxMB' - card ignored=onboard
always selected)->needs confirmation, anybody?,
[some of the Boot Settings Configuration may be missing?? for
HD's and CD/DVD's? unclear.]
No change to any w98 drivers-if something in previous Posts didn't have a
driver previously, it still doesn't now.
.
*Maybe AsRock (or a supplier) had a large amount of ICH5 remaining(?),
alternatively (or additionally);
*The addition of the COM connector suggests to me that some Vendor
of a commercial/industrial nature requested AsRock to reissue such a mobo,
possibly as an alternative to other more expensive? motherboards selling
currently that are intended for the industrial sector that use e.g. ICH7R.
[Ahh, describing those mobos is too much typing for this Post.]
*Is AsRock 775i65G R3.0 attractive for us?... not particularly...
as '98 Guy' [98Guy] notes;
http://www.win98bant...ead.php?t=51931
[Edit; Perhaps 98Guy meant '5.1' instead of '7.1'....and for sure, the driver in
'C-MmediaAC97DrvUDA044Logo_Win98seme2kxp.zip' lists only CM9738,
not 9761a, in its INF files for W95/W98.]

Edited by buyerninety, 01 December 2012 - 04:40 PM.


#257
Zollex

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775i65G support E8400 dual core? What cpu is the best for 775i65g motherboard?

#258
paoloapaolo

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CPU......the best for 775i65g motherboard?

Qx6800

Edited by paoloapaolo, 08 March 2013 - 08:24 AM.


#259
xrayer

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Hi,
I had a chance to test quite new mobo Gigabyte GA-B75M-D3V (for my colleague's parents) with UEFI for 2 days. CPU is intel Pentium G860 Sandybridge, chipset (PCH) intel B75 and 4GB RAM. It has integrated VGA - intel HD gfx in CPU core with configurable VRAM size (par of system RAM - I allocated 256MB). It has also one LPT, COM and PS/2 port.

I just done some quick tests using my utils to see how well it works under DOS. Logs are here.
You can look at new UEFI SETUP interface. It run in gfx mode and use mouse. http://rayer.g6.cz/1...75M-D3V/SETUP/. There are some legacy settings like SATA IDE mode vs AHCI, emulation of port 60/64 for USB KBD, mouse emulation, loading ROM and UEFI ROM modules from peripherals, setting of LPT mode, address and IRQ. There's no advanced. setting for COM ports. I found the setup has quite poor set of settings compared to my old classic Award BIOS 6.00.

I ran FreeDOS and MSDOS on it without problems. Kbd and mouse emulation works quite well. One issue I observed was that JEMMEX and HIMEMX detected wrong XMS size - only 0,5GB instead of 3,x GB like MS himem.sys from Win98 did. It is caused by some memory holes - non-contiognous area.
Further comments in thread on BTTR forum.

I tried to install Win98SE there just for fun but I was unable to run setup (regarless various options an configuration). So I copied my working copy of W98 but it failed to boot with message about missing c:\windows\system\vmm32.vxd - sure it was there and ending with message you ma turn off PC now. It happened in 1sec. When I enabled F8 tracking and answer no to load all drivers it booted in safe mode. That was all I can did.
This mobo is simply too new for Win9x :(
I expect it will be similar for different manufactures based on new PCH chipsets intel 5x/6x/7x. So last know working config remains iP/G41+ICH7, maybe ICH9-10...

WinXP works fine there. This machine has Samsung 840 SSD and I was able to install AHCI driver after installation but performance gain is weak:
IDE mode: 400MB/s, CPUI load 10%
AHCI mode: 405MB/s, CPU load 7%
I also tried to integrated iastor.sys into my instllation CD, then I was able to run windows setup in AHCI mode but after last restart (windows install almost complette) it didn't boot - ended in restart loop. So this is reason why I installed in IDE mode and enabled AHCI later. I suspect taht driver was installed but registry entry was not properly set to load iastor.sys _during_ system boot. But I don't know where to change it in install scripts. I was able to install all drivers for chipset, network, intel core VGA, sound... except:
radic jednoduche komunikace pro sbernici PCI
(controller of simple communication for PCI bus)
VID:8086 DID:1E3A sub 1C3A/1458 rev 04
but it's not important for working system.
It runs very fast from SSD, boot time about 12sec. :)

Edited by xrayer, 11 April 2013 - 09:31 AM.

Win98(SE)CZ unofficial support site.
Running MSDOS 6.22, FreeDOS, Win98SE+KEX-4.5.2+nSP+nUSB, NT4.0-SP6, WinXP-SP3, Debian Linux
Gigabyte GA-P31-DS3L, Core 2 Duo E8500@3,6GHz, 4GB DDR2, GF7900GT/256M, SSD Samsung 840 Pro, WD1000FBYX SATA, SB Audigy 2

#260
rloew

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I tried to install Win98SE there just for fun but I was unable to run setup (regarless various options an configuration). So I copied my working copy of W98 but it failed to boot with message about missing c:\windows\system\vmm32.vxd - sure it was there and ending with message you ma turn off PC now. It happened in 1sec. When I enabled F8 tracking and answer no to load all drivers it booted in safe mode. That was all I can did.
This mobo is simply too new for Win9x :(

I have Windows 98 running on an UEFI System. It is an Asus M5A97 with an 8 Core AMD Processor.

SInce you had a problem with HIMEMX, use HIMEM.
DO NOT USE AHCI, it will crash.
Go into Safe Mode, remove ALL Drivers, reboot into normal mode and redetect Drivers.
Ye who enter my domain. Beware! Lest you become educated in the mysteries of the universe and suffer forever from the desire to know more.

#261
xrayer

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>SInce you had a problem with HIMEMX, use HIMEM.

I tried too, used himex for limiting XMS to 512M, I also limided by maxphyspage in system.ini on installed system but no effect.

>DO NOT USE AHCI, it will crash.

Of course, I use IDE mode.

>Go into Safe Mode, remove ALL Drivers, reboot into normal mode and redetect Drivers.

I tried to remove many system drivers that I guessed may cause problem but there was many entries, some doubled and I didn't have much time so I didn't clear it all an unable start in normal mode.

Does setup.exe work on your system too or you installed on other PC/VM ?
It's positive that it runs on some UEFI mobos, maybe it depend on how they take care about compatability module...
Win98(SE)CZ unofficial support site.
Running MSDOS 6.22, FreeDOS, Win98SE+KEX-4.5.2+nSP+nUSB, NT4.0-SP6, WinXP-SP3, Debian Linux
Gigabyte GA-P31-DS3L, Core 2 Duo E8500@3,6GHz, 4GB DDR2, GF7900GT/256M, SSD Samsung 840 Pro, WD1000FBYX SATA, SB Audigy 2

#262
xrayer

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Now, the good news!
- There are 2 PCI slots to be used for a VGA and sound card.
- PCI VGA can be set as the active card in BIOS so that two cards (old PCI for Win98 and a new PCI-E card) can be installed in the same computer.


I was also thinking about this 2-VGA solution. I vaguely remember that Win98 should support more than 1 VGA (on just only monitors?)...
Would be possible to use secondary PCI VGA without switching it in BIOS? It would be anoying to go to setup before boot, maybe it could be reconfigured by writting to some chipset/vga PCI registers before win98 will boot...
Win98(SE)CZ unofficial support site.
Running MSDOS 6.22, FreeDOS, Win98SE+KEX-4.5.2+nSP+nUSB, NT4.0-SP6, WinXP-SP3, Debian Linux
Gigabyte GA-P31-DS3L, Core 2 Duo E8500@3,6GHz, 4GB DDR2, GF7900GT/256M, SSD Samsung 840 Pro, WD1000FBYX SATA, SB Audigy 2

#263
rloew

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>SInce you had a problem with HIMEMX, use HIMEM.

I tried too, used himex for limiting XMS to 512M, I also limided by maxphyspage in system.ini on installed system but no effect.

Unless you limited memory to less than 768MB you need to set MaxFileCache as well.

>Go into Safe Mode, remove ALL Drivers, reboot into normal mode and redetect Drivers.

I tried to remove many system drivers that I guessed may cause problem but there was many entries, some doubled and I didn't have much time so I didn't clear it all an unable start in normal mode.

I did say ALL.

Does setup.exe work on your system too or you installed on other PC/VM ?
It's positive that it runs on some UEFI mobos, maybe it depend on how they take care about compatability module...

I cloned the Hard Drive from my MA785 Computer, which is about a year older, ran a Registry Script that stripped all of the Driver Entries except for a few ROOT and Network Entries, and redetected everything. A few of my Programs had to be reworked such as my SMM Hook, 64-Bit RAM API and Multi-Core API. The built in Ethernet had no Driver so I needed to add a PCI Card.

I have had so many problems with SETUP.EXE that I bypassed it years ago. I created a "pre-installed Windows Setup CD" that allows me to setup a new Machine without using Setup and with my Patches already Slip-Streamed in. I don't remember if I ever tried SETUP.EXE on the M5A97.

Edited by rloew, 12 April 2013 - 09:24 PM.

Ye who enter my domain. Beware! Lest you become educated in the mysteries of the universe and suffer forever from the desire to know more.

#264
xrayer

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Unless you limited memory to less than 768MB you need to set MaxFileCache as well.

Yes I limited to 64MB...

I cloned the Hard Drive from my MA785 Computer, which is about a year older, ran a Registry Script that stripped all of the Driver Entries except for a few ROOT and Network Entries, and redetected everything.


I moved my installation too instead of clean instal. About 4 or 5 years ago I installed on Asus intel 945/ICH7 then moved to P31/ICH7 and now I was trying to move to B75...
I also moved Windows NT 4.0 - they are portable very well. I used even older install made on intel BX440, installed some drivers and still working. It's probably advantage of limited plug&pray, no ACPI etc... :)

A few of my Programs had to be reworked such as my SMM Hook, 64-Bit RAM API and Multi-Core API. The built in Ethernet had no Driver so I needed to add a PCI Card.


Cool, I saw you made 64bit api and multicore support. I just tried the demo but didn't worked for me (C2D E8500), just display
"No Available Cores"
of course I had installed DEMOCORE.VXD and added in system.ini and rebooted.
I would like to know who want to develop some heavy computation using SMP on windows98 now but it's cool as tech. demonstration of possibilities. AFAIK Japheth or someone else was experimenting with 64b long mode under DOS but nobody used it in some app yet...

I have had so many problems with SETUP.EXE that I bypassed it years ago. I created a "pre-installed Windows Setup CD" that allows me to setup a new Machine without using Setup and with my Patches already Slip-Streamed in. I don't remember if I ever tried SETUP.EXE on the M5A97.


Yes this is good idea. Win98 seems to be portable enough. I'm not sure if there's no problem with changing APM/ACPI HAL (could I call it HAL? You kno similar problem in 2k/XP..) ...I remember I was able to change from APM to ACPI, it redetected and installed devices but power button didn't worked. So making clean install on some generic HW like in som virtual machine and ther distrubute it to target PC and let system redetect all HW. Yes it seems to be only viable way...
Win98(SE)CZ unofficial support site.
Running MSDOS 6.22, FreeDOS, Win98SE+KEX-4.5.2+nSP+nUSB, NT4.0-SP6, WinXP-SP3, Debian Linux
Gigabyte GA-P31-DS3L, Core 2 Duo E8500@3,6GHz, 4GB DDR2, GF7900GT/256M, SSD Samsung 840 Pro, WD1000FBYX SATA, SB Audigy 2

#265
rloew

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Cool, I saw you made 64bit api and multicore support. I just tried the demo but didn't worked for me (C2D E8500), just display
"No Available Cores"
of course I had installed DEMOCORE.VXD and added in system.ini and rebooted.
I would like to know who want to develop some heavy computation using SMP on windows98 now but it's cool as tech. demonstration of possibilities. AFAIK Japheth or someone else was experimenting with 64b long mode under DOS but nobody used it in some app yet...

The Demo is obsolete. It only works with older AMD Multi-Core Porcessors. Due to lack of interest, I never updated the Demo.
I have upgraded the full Version to support Intel and newer AMD Processors.
Ye who enter my domain. Beware! Lest you become educated in the mysteries of the universe and suffer forever from the desire to know more.

#266
submix8c

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@rloew - the NEW Demo only works on NEWER AMD, not (e.g.) AMD X2 (x64) 3800 Dual Core? If so, is there a possibility you would release a non-Demo of it (E521 I would like to use it on)? No $$$ is the reason I ask, otherwise... :(

Edited by submix8c, 16 April 2013 - 01:31 PM.

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#267
rloew

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@rloew - the NEW Demo only works on NEWER AMD, not (e.g.) AMD X2 (x64) 3800 Dual Core? If so, is there a possibility you would release a non-Demo of it (E521 I would like to use it on)? No $$$ is the reason I ask, otherwise... :(

I haven't ported the changes from the Full Version to the Demo so there currently is no New Demo.
If you are interested in buying the API, I can port the changes so you can test it.
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#268
petekeller

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If anyone is still interested in this board; AsRock 4Coredual-Sata2, there are four 'new' ones up for sale on Ebay.

http://www.ebay.com/...=item4ac5168bd1




#269
earlytv

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On ebay are many MSI 848P-NE02V boards, you can get new from china 1 or 10 or 100. They use the early intel 775 CPU up to 3.8 GHZ speed and I found 98SE drivers. Can 98SE run that fast? Because they have 98SE drivers I hope the bios can turn off what it cant use?


Edited by earlytv, 15 July 2013 - 06:35 AM.


#270
LoneCrusader

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On ebay are many MSI 848P-NE02V boards, you can get new from china 1 or 10 or 100. They use the early intel 775 CPU up to 3.8 GHZ speed and I found 98SE drivers. Can 98SE run that fast? Because they have 98SE drivers I hope the bios can turn of what it cant use?


Yes. All Windows 9x can run that fast with the right updates. 98SE and ME are OK, 98FE and 95 need patches.

You should be able to find 98SE drivers for all devices on any Intel 8xx Chipset based board. I'm sure there may be exceptions out there, but I haven't encountered one yet.

Edited by LoneCrusader, 14 July 2013 - 07:55 PM.


#271
ROTS

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Somebody asked me for my setup, so here it is. Me. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Foxconn .P4M900-8237A. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Intel Pentium 4 3.40Ghz. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Pheonix2007 BIOS. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 98. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ASUS P4PE ( fancy "looking" startup ) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Intel Pentium 4 3.40Ghz. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Award 2002 BIOS . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . The Nvida srives that are somewhere in the 98/ME section works for both Windows ME and 98, but they suck compared to actual drivers The ASUS board has an official card that came with it ( sadly a 64MB but 128-bit card ) which is really a nvida card. Again the unofficial drivers sucks compared to offficial drivers. I barely get any modes with the unofficial drivers, So if anybody wants to me to attach the drivers I am using for my 64mB board, so you can modifiy the driver package or see if it will help??? These are ASUS drivers for the Nivida board. eventuallu I hope to max out to a graphics card 528MB.

#272
petekeller

petekeller

    Newbie

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This is just an informational post for those thinking about
installing Win98 or ME on a system with a PCI-Express video
card. Right now, there are a lot of ASUS nVidia 6600 and 6800 pci-e
video cards up for sale on Ebay. They're being sold as 'new' and are
presumably old stock. Prices range from $30 to $80 with free
shipping. The links are below.

6600: http://www.ebay.com/...mCondition=1000

6800: http://www.ebay.com/...mCondition=1000



#273
jaclaz

jaclaz

    The Finder

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This is just an informational post for those thinking about
installing Win98 or ME on a system with a PCI-Express video
card. Right now, there are a lot of ASUS nVidia 6600 and 6800 pci-e
video cards up for sale on Ebay. They're being sold as 'new' and are
presumably old stock. Prices range from $30 to $80 with free
shipping. The links are below.

I guess that those are for US customers only, between US $50 and  US $65 (besides import taxes) to get them to (say) Italy or France seems to me like a nice show-stopper for EU people.

 

jaclaz



#274
TmEE

TmEE

    Mega Drive Modding Master

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Portwell RUBY-9719VG2AR works if you don't mind lack of onboard audio, video and LAN. Just be sure to select ACPI 1.0 and disable PCI memory remapping from the BIOS. I used xrayer's intel INF mod.

For video I am using Ati Radeon X550 PCI-E GFX card, sound comes from Yamaha YMF718 + Yamaha SW1000XG + Yamaha DS2416 + Yamaha AX44 and LAN is handled by a Intel Pro1000 desktop NIC.


Posted Image Mida sa loed ? Nagunii aru ei saa ;)

#275
buyerninety

buyerninety

    Dude,¯\_{ö}_/¯ where's my avatar?

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@TmEE, Perhaps better expressed as;

}Portwell RUBY 9719VG2AR works if you don't mind lack of windows 98 drivers for onboard 'audio, video and LAN'.{

onboard audio=? (perhaps you could enlighten us what Realtek ALCxxx chip it has, if it has an ALCxxx?)

onboard video=  (integrated) Intel GMA X4500 - VGA out (VBEMP any good for only basic resolution in Win98?)

onboard   LAN= Intel 82583V (PCI-E bus device)

..But of course, you do get 6 PCI slots total to utilize...


Edited by buyerninety, 01 October 2013 - 02:10 AM.





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