Primary partition

[whs37]

I am trying to clarify whether the e.g. Windows7 Recovery Partition has to be a primary partition or whether it can also be a logical partition. I was always under the impression that only active boot partitions have to be primaries.

Unfortunately it has become a bad practice by the PC manufacturers to define 4 primary partitions on their preinstalled OEM Windows7 systems. Those can be:

1. A 100MB active boot partition that contains the MBR (Master Boot Record)

2. The OS partition that contains Windows7

3. The recovery partition

4. And often also a tools partition with the OEMs specific tool box

This gives a normal non-geeky user little chance to define e.g. a data partition. I usually recommend to burn the recovery DVDs and then delete the recovery partition to make room for an extended partition without running into the dreaded dynamics. But that is not really a very elegant solution. I would prefer to convert all the primaries (except the active boot partition) into logicals (e.g. with Partition Wizard)

Does anybody have any insights whether that will work. Note that I teach classes including the disk management topic in the local computer club. I would hate to recommend schemes that do not work.

[cannie]

I would prefer to convert all the primaries (except the active boot partition) into logicals (e.g. with Partition Wizard)

After burning the recovery DVDs, using Partition Wizard you can go on as follows:

1.- Don't touch in any way the 100 MB hidden Primary Partition 1!

2.- Reduce the size of the C drive, Primary Partition 2, to about 25 GB.

3.- Delete the Recovery Partition and the OEMs specific tool box Primary Partition.

4.- Create into the left free space as many logical units as you wish, until the whole disk is used.

5.- Burn new recovery DVDs to backup this new configuration!

The recovery partition is definitively lost in any case, and therefore it is always convenient to obtain and keep a Windows 7 install DVD to be used instead of it, keeping also into an external device a copy of the mainboard manufacturer's drivers ("swsetup" or "cabs" folders). In case of need this would allow you to reinstall the same Windows 7 version from scratch using the same activation key.

HTH

[jaclaz]

Point is that Logical Volumes inside Extended cannot (normally) be booted.

This is because in their bootsector the "Sectors Before" value is relative to the EPBR (and NOT to the MBR).

This can be "fixed", see here:

http://www.goodells.net/multiboot/

http://www.goodells.net/multiboot/ptedit.htm

AND check the grub4dos "partnew" command.

Whether this will apply to the Windows 7 hidden boot partition or to the recovery partition made by on any OEM without further tweaking is up to you to experiment with and hopefully find out.

jaclaz

[Tripredacus]

Unfortunately it has become a bad practice by the PC manufacturers to define 4 primary partitions on their preinstalled OEM Windows7 systems. Those can be:

1. A 100MB active boot partition that contains the MBR (Master Boot Record)

2. The OS partition that contains Windows7

3. The recovery partition

It is Microsoft supplied documentation and best practices that say to make them all primary partitions. In order for high-volume OEMs to sell computers with Windows on them, they have to follow strict guidelines but these limitations are still worthwhile to them.

As far as the 100MB partition (I've seen them as large as 500MB) that is not for the MBR. The MBR exists before the start of that partition. It is primarily there for BitLocker usage, however if that partition is removed, the BCD will need to be updated in order for Windows to load. As already discussed many times, Windows 7 can work both with and without this partition.

[jaclaz]

Yes , the MBR is NEVER inside ANY partition, it is the first sector of the PhysicalDrive, BEFORE the beginning of ANY partition, and actually contains the data that "define" the partition(s) extents.

As far as the 100MB partition (I've seen them as large as 500MB) that is not for the MBR. The MBR exists before the start of that partition. It is primarily there for BitLocker usage, however if that partition is removed, the BCD will need to be updated in order for Windows to load. As already discussed many times, Windows 7 can work both with and without this partition.

Yes/No.

Windows can be installed WITH that partition and WITHOUT that partition.

But if you delete that partition once windows 7 has been installed WITH it, you will have an unbootable system, until you do a repair, that restores the \boot\ and the BOOTMGR.

http://www.sevenforums.com/installation-setup/10408-whats-100mb-partition-can-i-delete.html

jaclaz

[whs37]

I thank everyone for the interesting ansers. But I still am not sure my question was answered which is:" Does the recovery partition have to be a primary partition"?

[jaclaz]

I thank everyone for the interesting ansers. But I still am not sure my question was answered which is:" Does the recovery partition have to be a primary partition"?

YES/NO.

http://homepages.tesco.net/J.deBoynePollard/FGA/questions-with-yes-or-no-answers.html

It depends on the SPECIFIC recovery software used in your SPECIFIC OEM setup.

Generally speaking, as you were told, a non-primary partition CANNOT be booted. (and you cannot recover from a recovery partition unless you boot from it )

It is possible, still generally speaking, to correct some values in the bootsector or PBR of a Logical Volume inside Extended Partition in such a way that the Volume becomes bootable.

Whether this will work with the SPECIFIC recovery software used in your SPECIFIC OEM setup or NOT is the question. (BTW, knowing WHICH OEM you have/are talking about, may help)

Usually these softwares use a modified MBR that allow, when pressing a given Fn key in the early boot phase, to select booting from the Recovery partition.

This SPECIFIC MBR code may be compatible with the changed tye of partition or may not.

Moreover it could be impossible (or better said completely undocumented) to restore such code after a "destructive" operation such as that of deleting the 100 Mb partition and doing a Repair, that will restore "default" MBR code.

jaclaz

[whs37]

Thank you for your answer. It clarifies the matter completely. I guess I could have asked in a yes/no format. But sometimes the world is more subtle.

The subject can be closed, but I don't know how you do that around here.

Edited November 22, 2010 by whs37

[jaclaz]

Thank you for your answer. It clarifies the matter completely. I guess I could have asked in a yes/no format. But sometimes the world is more subtle.

You are welcome.

The subject can be closed, but I don't know how you do that around here.

We don't usually "close" threads.

You may want to edit the title of the thread adding

[sOLVED]

to it, or even better giving it a more meaningful title, like:

Recovery partition needs to be Primary? [sOLVED]

It is good that it remains open as if someone needs to ask a related question, he/she won't need opening a new thread on the exact same subject.

jaclaz

[whs37]

OK, we'll leave it as is.