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How can we keep XP alive?

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#1
oldwindows

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Hello to all XP enthusiasts :)

I have some questions regarding XP's end date and the future of XP.

Let's say that the date today is: April 8, 2014.

- My first question is out of curiosity: Why are you going to use XP?

- My second question is about security: Will XP be more vulnerable to viruses and spyware after april 2014? Is it enough to have an antivirus and a firewall?

- How about drivers? Do we have to mod the drivers ourselves? I think hardware-manufacturers will slowly stop making XP-drivers. How do you find XP drivers for newer hardware? Do you recommend any good websited for finding drivers? Do you mod the drivers yourself?
I tried installing XP drivers on my laptop. It took me a while to find modded (unsigned) drivers. I sucessfully installed every driver and everything worked fine for while, but then I got random blue-screens all the time. If someone knows a good guide on how to mod/tweak drivers so that they work on XP, please send me a PM or something. I would love to know how to do that.

- I've heard that there is directx 10 for XP. Is that true?

I really like XP, it would be nice to keep it alive even after 2014. Today, still 40% use XP :).

Sorry for my english, not my first language.


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#2
Tommy

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I know people will continue to use Windows XP long after the cutoff date, simply for two reasons. Either they cannot afford to upgrade, or like me, they think the latest versions of Windows from Microsoft are absolute garbage. As long as Windows XP 2009 Embedded lives on, I think people will be able to mod those updates and make them work on regular Windows XP machines. If not, I'm sure someone like blackwingcat will come around and make projects just like he does. I really can't even use Windows XP since our projects for Windows 2000 make it nearly far superior than Windows XP simply because of the new extensions added to critical system files. But I'm positive will see people using Windows XP even up until 2020. Even though I still prefer Windows 2000 over anything, I think Windows XP was the last decent version of Windows Microsoft pushed out. Now all they care about is their stupid little tablets and mobile devices and making it look flashy in place of productive and useful.

As for drivers, I'm sure some clever hackers will figure out how to mod drivers to be compatible with XP, similar to how we take very late XP drivers and mod them for 2000.

Edited by Tommy, 24 February 2013 - 04:19 PM.

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#3
CharlotteTheHarlot

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One thing we can do is directly contact OEMs, particularly those that make critical hardware like video cards and motherboards.

Demand that they supply drivers for Windows XP. Remind them that approximately 40% of all PCs on Planet Earth still run it.

Ask them not to collude with Microsoft in their intentional planned obsolescence for Windows XP and that they should look after their own interests by continuing to sell their hardware directly to XP owners.

... Let him who hath understanding reckon the Number Of The Beast ...


#4
monroe

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I came across an interesting article about Windows XP ... dated Oct 25, 2011 ... "Ten Years of Windows XP: How Longevity Became a Curse". I'm sure some here have read it but it was new to me and maybe some others in this forum also missed it. It starts off good with many interesting things to say about XP but in the end the author sums it all up and says it's time to move on to Windows 7 ... it is good reading on Windows XP and I would hope that XP will still have a long life after 2014. I intend to stay with it ... have too much invested and no longer interested in spending "scarce dollars" on newer computers ... I have three Thinkpads ... T41 (1) and T42 (2) ... bought them since they were the last versions to work with Windows 98SE but last year I decided to give XP Pro another try and it was a great move on my part ... maybe I was "finally" ready for Windows XP and also XP really runs super on these older Thinkpads. I have Ghost backups which is my "Factory CD" ... the thing you once got with a new computer so many years ago ... for a quick repair or fix. Everything is working great, so I can only hope we "XP" people have a great and long future after 2014.

Ten Years of Windows XP: How Longevity Became a Curse

by Peter Bright - Oct 25, 2011 4:17 pm UTC

http://arstechnica.c...became-a-curse/

Windows XP's retail release was October 25, 2001, ten years ago today. Though no longer readily available to buy, it continues to cast a long shadow over the PC industry: even now, a slim majority of desktop users are still using the operating system.

Windows XP didn't boast exciting new features or radical changes, but it was nonetheless a pivotal moment in Microsoft's history. It was Microsoft's first mass-market operating system in the Windows NT family. It was also Microsoft's first consumer operating system that offered true protected memory, preemptive multitasking, multiprocessor support, and multiuser security.

The transition to pure 32-bit, modern operating systems was a slow and painful one. Though Windows NT 3.1 hit the market in 1993, its hardware demands and software incompatibility made it a niche operating system. Windows 3.1 and 3.11 both introduced small amounts of 32-bit code, and the Windows 95 family was a complex hybrid of 16-bit and 32-bit code. It wasn't until Windows XP that Windows NT was both compatible enough—most applications having been updated to use Microsoft's Win32 API—and sufficiently light on resources.

In the history of PC operating systems, Windows XP stands alone. Even Windows 95, though a landmark at its release, was a distant memory by 2005. No previous PC operating system has demonstrated such longevity, and it's unlikely that any future operating system will. Nor is its market share dominance ever likely to be replicated; at its peak, Windows XP was used by more than 80 percent of desktop users.

The success was remarkable for an operating system whose reception was initially quite muted. In the wake of the September 11th attacks, the media blitz that Microsoft planned for the operating system was toned down; instead of arriving with great fanfare, it slouched onto the market. Retail sales, though never a major way of delivering operating systems to end users, were sluggish, with the operating system selling at a far slower rate than Windows 98 had done three years previously.

It faced tough competition from Microsoft's other operating systems. Windows 2000, released less than two years prior, had won plaudits with its marriage of Windows NT's traditional stability and security to creature comforts like USB support, reliable plug-and-play, and widespread driver support, and was widely adopted in businesses. For Windows 2000 users, Windows XP was only a minor update: it had a spruced up user interface with the brightly colored Luna theme, an updated Start menu, and lots of little bits and pieces like a firewall, UPnP, System Restore, and ClearType. Indeed, many professionals and, for want of a better term, nerds, were turned off by the Luna theme, with its detractors dismissing Windows XP as a Fisher-Price operating system.

The familiar Windows XP desktop with Luna theme

For home users using Windows 95-family operating systems, Windows XP had much more to offer, thanks to its substantially greater stability and security, especially once Service Pack 2 was released. But even there, users didn't leap immediately. Windows XP's hardware demands, though modest by today's standards, were steeper than those of the Windows 95 family, and in its early days at least, neither Windows XP's driver support nor performance could match those of its technologically inferior sibling. Gamers, in particular, were vocal in their criticism of Windows XP, and many vowed to stick with Windows 98SE indefinitely.

In the first year of Windows XP's availability, Microsoft had to work to persuade even enterprises to ditch Windows 95, in spite of its near complete unsuitability to enterprise computing.

In the end, none of the objections mattered. Time made Windows XP a success. Computers got faster, rendering its hardware demands first ubiquitous, and then later in its life, almost laughable. Driver support grew, and driver performance improved. Instead of being a heavyweight alternative to use if you had the resources and you could be sure that all your hardware and software would work with it, it became the obvious choice of system software. The explosion in Internet usage, and the focus on system security, made continued use of the Windows 95 family untenable. Windows XP was therefore the only choice for most desktop users, and within a few years of its release, most Windows 95, Windows 98, Windows NT 4, and Windows 2000 users had made the switch.

The long life of Windows XP ...

Over the course of its life, Microsoft made Windows XP a much better operating system. Service Pack 2, released in 2004, was a major overhaul of the operating system. It made the software better able to handle modern systems, with improved WiFi support and a native Bluetooth stack, and made it far more secure. The firewall was enabled by default, the bundled Internet Explorer 6 gained the "gold bar" popup blocker and ActiveX security feature, and for hardware that supported it, Data Execution Protection made it more difficult to exploit software flaws.

Microsoft also produced a number of variants of the base operating system. The two major ones were Windows XP Media Center Edition and Windows XP Tablet Edition. These were efforts to push Windows into new kinds of market - the TV-connected home theater PC and the pen-powered tablet - though neither met with any great commercial success and for Windows Vista, their features were rolled into the core product rather than shipping as standalone versions.

But in many ways, the thing that cemented Windows XP's status wasn't Windows XP itself: it was the lack of any successor. Microsoft's Longhorn project, an ambitious plan to radically rework Windows, with an all-new set of APIs and a database-like filesystem, was delayed and ultimately abandoned entirely. Windows Vista, a massively scaled back, more conservative release, eventually arrived in 2006, but by this time Windows XP had become so dominant that users, particularly business users, didn't want a new operating system. That Windows Vista had trouble in its early days, thanks to its steeper hardware demands, its polarizing appearance, and display driver issues - mirroring, in many ways, Windows XP's own introduction - just served to entrench Windows XP further. Business users stuck with Windows XP and Windows Vista struggled to ever make a serious dent in its predecessor's market share, peaking at just 19 percent in the final days before Windows 7's release.

Had Windows Longhorn been more successful and had Windows Vista arrived sooner, Windows XP's market share dominance would never have been achieved. Windows 7, though well-received and widely liked, will be lucky to hit 50 percent market share before its replacement, Windows 8, hits the market (assuming Microsoft manages to avoid any development disasters). With a new operating system coming out every two to three years, which is Microsoft's plan, there simply isn't enough time to amass that much market share.

Long in the tooth it may be, but Windows XP still basically works. Regardless of the circumstances that led to its dominance and longevity, the fact that it remains usable so long after release is remarkable. Windows XP was robust enough, modern enough, well-rounded enough and usable enough to support this extended life. Not only was Windows XP the first (and only) PC operating system that lasted ten years: it was the first PC operating system that was good enough to last ten years. Windows 98 didn't have the security or stability; Windows 2000 didn't have the security or comfort; Mac OS X 10.1 didn't have the performance, the richness of APIs, or the hardware support.

The downside of longevity ...

As much as businesses have enjoyed the ability to standardize on one operating system for
a decade, the effect of Windows XP's long life and massive market share has its downsides. Windows XP is today a very tired platform, one that hasn't kept up with modern developments. Installing it onto systems with new RAID or SATA controllers is a miserable experience. Installing it on systems without optical drives is also troublesome. Though Service Pack 2 took steps to improve security, it still falls a long way short of Windows Vista and Windows 7 in that regard, thanks to newer features such as address space layout randomization and User Account Control. The technology it uses is dated; Windows 7 and Mac OS X both use GPUs' powerful 3D capabilities to accelerate their user interfaces (to a greater or lesser extent). Windows XP does not. Windows XP also lacks a true 64-bit version; though a Windows XP for x86-64 processors was released, it was actually a rebranded version of Windows Server 2003, a decision which caused various compatibility issues. Windows Vista and Windows 7, in contrast, both have mainstream, well-supported 64-bit versions.

New versions of Windows offer value to developers, too. Direct3D 10, for example, only supports Windows Vista and Windows 7; it's not available on Windows XP. The continued widespread usage of the old operating system makes it much harder for developers to depend on these new features: every time they do, they rule out the ability to sell to half of all current Windows users and that's a bitter pill to swallow. More aggressive migration away from Windows XP would enable the development of better third-party applications.

Given current trends, Windows 7 will overtake XP within the next year, with many businesses now moving away from the decade-old OS in earnest. Not all - there are still companies and governments rolling out Windows XP on new hardware - but the tide has turned. Windows XP, with its weaker security and inferior support for modern hardware, is now becoming a liability; Windows 7 is good enough for business and an eminently worthy successor, in a way that Windows Vista was never felt to be.

Nonetheless, it will be several years before developers and administrators can put Windows XP behind them. Its support is due to end on April 8th, 2014 and while that date is still some years off, it's all but inevitable that there will be organizations still using the operating system right up to the cut-off. Beyond the support cut-off, companies will still be allowed to downgrade their volume licenses, but they won't receive any further security patches if they do.

When Microsoft wanted to stop OEM preinstallations of Windows XP in 2007, there was a widespread backlash against the decision. It wouldn't be surprising to see a campaign of some kind to extend support for the operating system and no doubt there will be some companies claiming that they somehow didn't have enough time to phase out Windows XP. Redmond did extend the length of time that OEMs could ship systems with Windows XP preinstalled in response to customer demands, but it's hard to see the company lengthening the operating system's support period beyond the cut-off.

Ten years is a good run for any operating system, but it really is time to move on. Windows 7 is more than just a solid replacement: it is a better piece of software and it's a much better match for the software and hardware of today. Being usable for ten years is quite an achievement, but the stagnation it caused hurts, and is causing increased costs for administrators and developers alike. As incredible as Windows XP's longevity has been, it's a one-off. Several factors - the 32-bit transition, the Longhorn fiasco, even the lack of competition resulting from Apple's own Mac OS X transition - conspired to make Windows XP's position in the market unique. We should not want this situation to recur: Windows XP needs to be not only the first ten-year operating system; it also needs to be the last.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

... decided to post the full article in case the link disappears or goes bad since it's almost 1 1/2 yrs old.

Edited by duffy98, 27 February 2013 - 02:26 AM.


#5
Tommy

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I cannot stand all these Windows 7 and 8 fanboys that insist it's just time to move to those platforms. There is no reason to! As long as Windows XP or in my case, Windows 2000 serves our purposes, why upgrade? The only thing we're doing by upgrading and listening to those jerks is providing MS with more revenue thus creating a larger monopoly. The tech industry is becoming way too competitive and I want no part of it. So no thanks Windows 7/8 fanboys, I will not be upgrading to your garbage OS, I'm stickin' with my Windows 2000 forever.
Daily running Windows 2000 Pro SP4 and Windows 98

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#6
monroe

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Tommy ... slightly off topic but you mentioned in your 1st post about Windows 2000 ... "I really can't even use Windows XP since our projects for Windows 2000 make it nearly far superior than Windows XP simply because of the new extensions added to critical system files." What are these Windows 2000 projects you are talking about? Are you working with tomasz86 in the Windows 2000 forum ... I don't remember seeing your name over there but could have easily missed it. I have a Dell Latitude Notebook Pentium 3 with Windows 2000 Pro installed and I am thinking maybe later this year of installing Windows 2000 Pro on one of my Pentium 4 Thinkpads, just to experiment with it and see how it will run. I haven't checked into Windows 2000 running on a Pentium 4 ... would be a summer project. As I asked earlier, do you have a website for Windows 2000 Pro and these projects or are you in another forum on the web or working with tomasz86?

thanks ...

#7
tomasz86

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@duffy98 Yes, while I do the dirty work when it comes to preparing and compiling the unofficial packages, Tommy helps me a lot in testing and improving them :) You can think of him as the main tester of UURollup.
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Unofficial Service Pack 5.2 for MS Windows 2000 <- use this topic if you need help with UURollup, Update Rollup 2 and other unofficial packages

#8
monroe

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tomasz86 ... OK, understand ... always good to have help!
...

#9
Tommy

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I used to be SearanoX, I just recently changed my name so that could be why you might've missed me. Yes, I'm one of the main testers of UURollup for tomasz, he has the skills to compile all this stuff and I have to ability to test it all out for him. :) I also have my little side projects like taking advantage of newer programs like WMP11 which requires UURollup to be installed.

Edited by Tommy, 25 February 2013 - 06:33 PM.

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#10
vinifera

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Is it enough to have an antivirus and a firewall?

yes

I've heard that there is directx 10 for XP. Is that true?

no
there was port via Alky (or was it Alki?) but it never worked fully, thus abandoned

I really like XP, it would be nice to keep it alive even after 2014.

no reason to stop using it, as long as you have hardware that works on XP (with its drivers)

---

I cannot stand all these Windows 7 and 8 fanboys that insist it's just time to move to those platforms. There is no reason to!

sure there is, newer hardware
If you want true Windows user experience
try Longhorn builds: 3718, 4029, 4066

#11
Andromeda43

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WOW! Finally a topic I can sink my teeth into.

The very first time I saw Windows XP on a PC, I thought "What a piece of S***!", , , who would ever want to use this thing?
I finally learned to work with it and after a couple of service packs it actually became a workable OS, in my estimation.
I still rail against all the "Permissions" thing.
Hey, it's MY PC, I don't need your dang permission to do Anything with it.
But after it's all said and done, I have XP beat down to size and running just fine for everything I need to do, like working this forum.

So just about the time I'm sitting back, relaxing and really enjoying my computer, MS comes along with another new OS.
I worked as a moderator on a Windows 8 forum for about nine months. I downloaded and installed every new Beta version that MS released and found out that without some extra tweaks and Software, like the "Classic Shell" I really couldn't stand Win-8 at all.

So many programs that I rely on daily, simply will not run on Win-8 and we've found out that there are thousands of pieces of hardware, like printers and scanners, that will NEVER work with Win-8.

So totally discounting Vista and Win-7 as 'Old News', the question now for many PC owners is, "Do I keep running and fixing my old XP PC or do I get a new PC which will have Windows 8 on it?"

In just the last six months, I've sold several PC's that I've 'Refurbished' here in my own shop, that still run Windows XP/SP3 and do it very nicely.
In many cases, I've installed newer and more powerful PSU's and added more RAM and even installed newer, larger and faster HD's.
But in EVERY case, I shut off Auto Updates, disable all the unnecessary Services and tweak and tune the OS for max efficiency.
Then I install a very good 'Package' of security software (all FREE versions) and the little PC is ready for several more years of good service.

As a PC tech, I really don't see the end of the XP era. (not anytime soon anyway)
Keep it clean and virus free and it will run forever. (more or less)

Cheers Mates! (from a very happy XP user)

Andromeda B)
A person with experience is never at the mercy of a person with an argument.

#12
vinifera

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after a couple of service packs it actually became a workable OS, in my estimation.


it was just fine with SP1

Edited by vinifera, 06 April 2013 - 05:48 PM.

If you want true Windows user experience
try Longhorn builds: 3718, 4029, 4066

#13
Andromeda43

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Ya know, there are some pretty darn good programmers in this world, that don't work for Microshaft and don't even like them.

Witness the Unofficial Service pack for Windows 98, and the Classic Shell program that works for both Windows 7 and 8.
Also the "Grant Admin full Control" program for both Win-7 & 8. That one is a real jewel.
And all the Act******, that are floating around out there, in cyber space.

Wherever there comes a need, someone will fill it. The whole world hates a vacuum.
If MS doesn't want to issue a SP4 for XP, someone else will.

XP will be alive and well and in everyday use, long after I'm dead, gone and forgotten. Count on it!

B)
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#14
dencorso

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XP will be alive and well and in everyday use, long after I'm dead, gone and forgotten. Count on it!


That's my take on it, too! Don't worry... be happy. It simply cannot be killed anymore. :)

#15
monroe

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Andromeda43 ... liked reading your earlier post, agree with you about the "Permissions" thing. I'm totally happy with my XP setup and everything seems to be perfect these days as far as having a great running Windws XP computer ... but like you, the "Permissions" thing drives me crazy at times. Of course I have Unlocker installed and use it often but always when a person is in a hurry and just wanting to move a simple file from here to there ... well, you know !!! ... I guess I could fool around and "remove" or "do away" with the permissions thing but I prefer to leave it as is for the protection it offers, if I understand the whole permissions thing right.

Also agree with your post from yesterday ... "XP will be alive and well and in everyday use, long after I'm dead, gone and forgotten. Count on it!" ... and also what dencorso posted: "That's my take on it, too! Don't worry... be happy. It simply cannot be killed anymore."

Look at how Windows 98SE has developed, after being "dropped" by MS ... I see that same thing also happening with Windows XP down the road.
...

Edited by duffy98, 08 April 2013 - 06:05 AM.


#16
vinifera

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hardware/drivers will kill XP eventually
it may live till 2020 by custom patches and whatnot

but eventually ...

Edited by vinifera, 08 April 2013 - 06:49 AM.

If you want true Windows user experience
try Longhorn builds: 3718, 4029, 4066

#17
MagicAndre1981

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buy a Windows Embedded XP system which gets updates till 2016.
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#18
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Support ends exactly 1 year from today.

Download all Windows XP Post SP3 High-Priority Updates with a simple double click @ xdot.tk post-12166-0-42859000-1399044129.png ]
               If someone helps you fix a problem, please report back so they and others can benefit from the solution. Thanks!


#19
dencorso

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Support ends exactly 1 year from today.

buy a Windows Embedded XP system which gets updates till 2016.

The POSReady 2009 I think'll get updates till 2019, or am I mistaken? Obviously, MS may still release surprise security fixes for really dire scenarios, up to then...

#20
5eraph

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It may be possible to port updates from Win2003 to XP, which will remain in extended support until 2015/07/14. In the case of XPx64, the files are already interchangeable due to the shared architecture.

#21
JodyT

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It may be possible to port updates from Win2003 to XP, which will remain in extended support until 2015/07/14. In the case of XPx64, the files are already interchangeable due to the shared architecture.


I placed a thread on the Windows XP x64 forum probing the latter question. I think that updates for the x64 version of Windows Server 2003 would need to repackaged in order to be used for Windows XP x64. But it would be great to use the OS until July 2015.

On my second machine, I was using regular 32-bit Windows XP as a simple file server, but I since changed over to Windows Server 2003 so that I could have an additional year of extended phase support. Hopefully, there is a way I could do the same with Windows XP x64. Failing that, I plan to move to Windows Vista x64 Ultimate Edition (my DVD has SP2 integrated) to take me to 2017.

Edited by JodyThornton, 13 April 2013 - 07:03 AM.


#22
5eraph

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I remember your thread. :)

If Microsoft uses the same scheme then that they use now, repacking will not be necessary. Just extract the package with the /x switch, swap in a hacked update.exe that ignores the relevant INF directive, then run that executable. The method works.

Edited by 5eraph, 13 April 2013 - 07:28 AM.


#23
dencorso

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On my second machine, I was using regular 32-bit Windows XP as a simple file server, but I since changed over to Windows Server 2003 so that I could have an additional year of extended phase support. Hopefully, there is a way I could do the same with Windows XP x64. Failing that, I plan to move to Windows Vista x64 Ultimate Edition (my DVD has SP2 integrated) to take me to 2017.

With all due respect: MS let go of 9x/ME way back (July 11, 2006) and we're still using it (I mean, the 9x/ME community I'm part of, as you all know). I'll do likewise with XP. I really fail to see what's the big deal. Why being *in-support* is so important to you all? While there remains compatible hardware, I see no obstacle whatsoever to continue using XP in the next 10-20 years. After that, it'll probably become really problematic... Then again, by that time, so much water'll have passed under the bridge that we can hardly know what we'll be interested in doing, IT-wise. This is just my 2 ¢, of course.

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#24
monroe

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A standing ovation to dencorso ... still clapping !!! I hope you are correct in predicting the future ... I have given some thoughts to getting a newer computer with Windows 7 sometime "down the road" but I really don't want to. It's exactly one year ago that I was making the switch from Windows 98SE to Windows XP Pro. What a great year it's been ... everything working so well, sad to say that in one way ... no more challenges, have all the software programs that I'll probably ever need, I still do a little research trying to understand a few things about XP a little better but it's not really necessary. These days I turn my notebooks on and they work and run better than I could ever hope for.

I go along with densorco with the 10 to 20 year thing ... I hope for a another 10 to 12 years, or maybe more ... but when the 20 year mark hits, it probably won't matter much to me, sad to say ... I'll probably be watching "birds and butterflies" and won't have any idea what a computer was or how it worked ... "sad to say" !

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JodyT

JodyT

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Hi dencorso:

I was setting up an old machine for my superintendent's brother. He was wanting a machine just use for six months while he saved up to get a new one. He had a Pentium III 400 MHz CPU. I upped it from 256 MB to 512 MB of RAM, and installed a clean copy of Windows ME on it. I used the unofficial SP for Windows ME and the Revolutions Pack v9 to modernize the interface somewhat. For browsing, I installed Seamonkey v1.1.19 (which as far as I know, was the last release to work with Win9x from 2010).

And still, there were SO MANY sites that just do not render properly. It may be a small thing, but when I load Google, the two search buttons should be side by side; not one on top of each other and stretched out. Facebook doesn't work properly. Many sites leave the top part of the page blank, leaving you to scroll down to see the actual page. I could go on, but you get the idea.

Sure, the OS is lickety-split fast, and the browser loads quickly. But the rendering issues of supported browsers are too much of an issue for most people (and even though I'm usually quite tolerant, I'm fast becoming one of those who just want the site to work). And what of banking online? The site has to be secure, and I would only trust a modern browser to do that.

Which means Win9x is simply out. Sadly that will soon mean Windows 2000 as well. As for my being fixated on ensuring I'm on a supported system, once Windows XP goes the way of the operating system graveyard, the browser vendors will stop releasing for XP as well. So I'll need to use Vista or higher; just to have access to a current browser on Microsoft Windows.

Is that not correct?




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